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Unread 04-11-2005, 12:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
guitarshred
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

Hello guys, just registered. This site is great. My Gibson SG Standard arrived last week with some major tuning problems. Someone recommended Grover Tuners. Is it all Gibsons that have this problem. Those crappy Deluxe tuners are not so deluxe, eh? Anyone have any recommendation on possible tuning problem solutions.... before I fork over another 40 on tuners. I changed the strings and did the normal setup checks but that @#$%* G string goes out after a few bends...



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Unread 04-11-2005, 01:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

Keep the tuners. Why does everyone blame the tuners?

Start here shred: http://everythingsg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2078
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Unread 04-11-2005, 02:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

Agreed. The problem is never (99.9% of the time) the tuners. I am a member on a few different forums and it seems that without fail when someone asks for help with tuning problems the first thing suggested is to replace the tuners.

Can anyone tell me why this is? By design a properly designed worm gear cannot "slip". The only possibility of failure comes when a tooth has chipped off of the gear or the gear has cracked. These kind of failures are obvious when trying to set the tune on the string as there will be a loud metallic click and the string will lose tension as you are turning the key to tighten it. This is not the same situation as "I set the tuning but after playing for a couple of minutes it goes out of tune".

I know this is fairly simplistic and I won't cover all the reasons for this happening to someones tune as it is covered very well in the previously attached post.

The bottom line is that I still just want to know, "Why?". :?

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Unread 04-11-2005, 02:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

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Unread 04-11-2005, 02:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Guitar Stringing technique not the problem

I appreciate the insight, unfortunately that is the same solution I get every time, (understandably)...Are you stringing your guitar properly...Yes... I understand the looping to prevent slipage process. I don't have these problems on my other guitars and they are strung exactly the same. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some other possibility. Thanks for the info....I'll keep looking for other possibilities. Also, isn't there better designed tuners than others and why do I hear about reoccuring problems with Gibson guitars going out of tune? Are all these seasoned musicians stringing there instrument incorrectly? :roll:



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Unread 04-11-2005, 04:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Guitar Stringing technique not the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by "guitarshred"
I appreciate the insight, unfortunately that is the same solution I get every time, (understandably)...Are you stringing your guitar properly...Yes... I understand the looping to prevent slipage process. I don't have these problems on my other guitars and they are strung exactly the same. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some other possibility. Thanks for the info....I'll keep looking for other possibilities. Also, isn't there better designed tuners than others and why do I hear about reoccuring problems with Gibson guitars going out of tune? Are all these seasoned musicians stringing there instrument incorrectly? :roll:



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Most of the probs are probably due to the nut or the bridge saddles. The G string is probably getting "stuck" in the groove of the nut because it wasn't cut or filed properly at the factory, or because you've changed string gauges since delivery. Also, the bridge saddles can also snag a string if they aren't filed smoothly. If a string doesn't move smoothly in the nut and the bridge saddle, it a good bet that it won't stay in tune for any longer than a minute.
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Unread 04-11-2005, 04:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think your on to something.

SG Dick,

That is something I never thought of. I did change string gauges . I'll take a look at that ...




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Unread 04-11-2005, 06:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

Ponec.... The reasons are clear.

1. Poorly strung: As in strings slipping on tuner shaft.
2. Poorly strung: Too many wraps on the tuner shaft will make that stretching a bear. Why? Because the wraps on the shaft are now tight and compressed to the shaft itself, yet those wraps still need to stretch. Too much wrap will drive your tuning nuts. On my mandolin, which has the same or higher string tension as a guitar, I get by with 1/2 to one full wrap on the wound string, and maybe 1 to 1-1/2 wraps on the plain strings. You just don't need that much.
3. Poorly strung: Not stretched in

4. New instrument: Tuners settling into the wood, nut settling into the wood, bridge and tail settling in, neck settling in. Both of my new SG's took a good two weeks to become real solid when new. After that, just a simple stretch at restring time is all it takes

5. Poor tuning method, as in... failing to adequately tune UP in pitch. Some players fail to adequately flatten the note and take up all the slack. If you're just marginally sharp, and you try to go marginally flat, and tune up a bit to take out the slack.. well you haven't taken out the slack! Gotta go a good half step flat, then tune up again.

6. Nut friction: Tends to not effect tuning as much as it does bending, but it can effect tuning. A bit of nut lube (sparingly) can help this. Ditto for the bridge saddles, but... again its a rare thing.

7. Environmental factors: Going from a moist to dry climate or vice versa will change the neck relief AND the tuning. Heck my guitars are so solid in the tuning when they're off... I tend to make sure the relief hasn' t changed! I've had guitars go SHARP ... and that is always climatic in nature.

The trend to say "Its your tuners, change em!" tends to stem from the need to accessorize your purchase. Better tuners (and the stock Gibson ones are quite good) are smoother, nicer to use, but no better at "keeping in tune" than any other. Dats the fact Jack.
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Unread 04-12-2005, 02:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

CharlieB, you think that the answer to my question is that simple? :wink:

Quote:
The trend to say "Its your tuners, change em!" tends to stem from the need to accessorize your purchase. Better tuners (and the stock Gibson ones are quite good) are smoother, nicer to use, but no better at "keeping in tune" than any other. Dats the fact Jack.
Basically that people just like to buy stuff? That still doesn't completely explain why people always chime in on these posts encouraging someone else to get new tuners. :roll: Earlier in this thread someone alluded to "ignorance". So far I think that is closest to the mark.

-Ron
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Unread 04-12-2005, 05:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

Ignorance and "I got some you need some too" and "I wish I could get some, so why don't you get some and tell me how it is..."

All the basic reasons.
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Unread 04-12-2005, 06:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

i think some people like to appear knowledgable, so they post what they've heard other people saying as if it's their own personal experience and it's gospel. i've probably done it myself on other forums, without realising i'm talking complete BS to some noob who then believes me because i've got a few hundred posts

i read some stuff on other sites about tuners, then i came to ESG and read what CB said. and he was right.
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Unread 04-12-2005, 07:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

I've got a few gibsons from the 60's with those type of tuners, and they don't go out of tune ever. I've been told forever how bad they are, they are fine tuners.

I have seen some bad tuners though.

sg's are none to move around a little when in a new inviroment, digfferent temp and humidity, I'm in toledo , ohio real cold and dry in winter, hot and humid in summer, and Im have to adjust my guitars for the two extremes.

you may need new tuners, but 90% of the time it is like CB says.
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Unread 04-12-2005, 10:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

I have never had a issue with the Kluson style tuners on any of my Gibsons, they have always worked fine. I think the issues are one of the ones above. I have had Gibson that had the strings hang on the nut or get snagged on the bridge. I got a nice old Hamer Special with a through the body sustain block bridge because the previous owner said "the Damn thing won't stay in tune". All it needed was a little more aggressive stretching technique around the bridge(very Tele like), the guitar was flawless for me and rarely went out. Don't change em' unless you have the urge to spend money needlessly and make some unsightly holes in your headstock. Listen for the "ping" in the nut an get that fixed if necessary and stretch the strings in real well and you should be in good shape.
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Unread 04-15-2005, 05:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

if you put some graphite in the slot by rubbing a pencil in the grove or somthing it will let the string slide through the nut easier. that would reduce the amount the string gets caught in the nut and could fix the entire problem. give it a try and if i doesnt work try some of the other suggestions.
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Unread 04-17-2005, 09:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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New Gibson SG Standard tuning problems.

I had the same problem with a Les Paul I got new, that thing would go out of tune every 5 min of playing. In about 5 weeks it settled in and now just a little tuning when i get it out to play. Another thing you could do is bring home a strat and start playing in front of the SG. If after that it still goes out of tune it is a fake so get rid of it.
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Unread 02-09-2013, 12:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarshred View Post
Hello guys, just registered. This site is great. My Gibson SG Standard arrived last week with some major tuning problems. Someone recommended Grover Tuners. Is it all Gibsons that have this problem. Those crappy Deluxe tuners are not so deluxe, eh? Anyone have any recommendation on possible tuning problem solutions.... before I fork over another 40 on tuners. I changed the strings and did the normal setup checks but that @#$%* G string goes out after a few bends...



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My Guitar is a Gibson SG Faded from 2007
I started replacing the tuners with Groovers ...But i Had to replace the nut to cure the problem...The nut i Used: Graph Tech Black tusq PL 6114 - 00
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Unread 02-09-2013, 07:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Unread 02-12-2013, 12:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Mod fever vs patience

I also replaced my tuners when my SG was new.... and after I did so, I questioned whether i'd gained anything. I believe that I did, the new tuners are a joy to use and have a higher gear ratio. But those are very minor improvements. It's quite likely that I could have kept the stock gears on and had no problems. So I haven't thrown them away. If I buy another cheapo guitar to 'improve,' I might put the Gibson tuners on it. They will definitely be better than the stock gears on an Epiphone. But even those usually work fine..

I think the point about letting your new guitar 'settle in' has a lot of merit. Which means don't be too impatient with it. Allow it some time, like a month or more before you decide that something needs to be changed. I had never heard that until I joined this site. But of course, all my guitars were bought used, except my beloved SG Faded Special. I did this very thing by instinct... and also because my SG was my first electric guitar I'd bought new since I was 17. A really long time. I decided that I needed to play it a lot before changing anything, so I did that. While playing it a lot, I made myself a wish list of mods. After I felt like I was familiar with the tone and the feel, I turned to my list.

I had tuning problems early on that I didn't understand, and spent a lot of money and angst chasing them. I got my SG 'Feitenized," got a fret job, new tuners and new bridge and tailpiece before six months were out. After that, my guitar seemed much more stable. But in the meantime, I had also learned that I was squeezing it too hard. My acoustic guitar player's "Grip OF Death" was throwing my notes sharp and making me crazy. After putting my SG in the hands of an excellent electric guitarist, and listening to him play my Gibson and sound awesome, I realized it was nothing wrong with my SG.

It was ME. And that was a situation I had the power to change. So I worked on my own technique and took advice from every guitarist I ran across that was better than me (there are a lot)... And I taught myself to play with a much more relaxed hand and a lighter touch. And wonder of wonders... not only did my guitar stay in tune, but I got to be a better player.

So after all that, I don't regret any of the 'improvements' I've made to my faded Special. The music biz is a competitive arena, and little things sometimes make all the difference that matters, like in the Olympics. I might regret it if I'd modded a '61 RI, which IMHO needs no mods. I learned so much in my first year of owning my SG, and I made so many changes that I can't tell which ones made the most difference.

But I like the sum of the parts, now that it's all paid for and I can just play it. And every time I set it back on its stand, it's with the comment, 'What a Great Guitar..." That's priceless IMHO. I found that I enjoy working on my guitars, which is also priceless. In that sense, some of the money I spent goes into the category of 'Entertainment" ...like placing bets at the Racetrack. *laughs Except that all my bets paid off, because of things I learned on this site. My advice now would be to go slow, and make changes one at a time, and play it a lot as you do, so you can be familiar with the fine rebellious tone of your SG, and tweak it little by little when something stands out as needing attention.

And I think it's best to try different strings until you find the brand that sounds best, and then stick with that. My SG likes D'Addario 11s, and lucky me, those are usually to be found onsale in ten set boxes. I use nut sauce on the bridge saddles and the nut slots, (very sparingly) and my SG is stable and stays in tune and never breaks strings.

If you've never had an SG before, you may find you're throwing it out of tune by horsing the neck around too vigorously. SGs are not as rigid as other guitars (which is one of the reasons ol' Les himself took a dim view of them). In my style of playing, I never flex the neck, so I don't have this problem. But other guys do, and sometimes they come up to me when we take a break and start boasting about how much they can bend a note by flexing the neck. I never let guys like this TOUCH my SG. If you're doing it, STOP! That's my opinion anyway.

Good luck and good wishes. I hope you and your SG can work together well. Welcome to the forum. Don't forget our unofficial motto here at ETSG: PICTURES, OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
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Last edited by Col Mustard; 02-12-2013 at 12:49 AM.
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Unread 02-12-2013, 02:58 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Since it's the G string, I'd bet money that the nut needs to be filed a little more. I've encountered the same problem and it's never the tuners.
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Unread 02-12-2013, 03:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Oh wait, I just noticed how old this thread is! No wonder I didn't recognize many of the names!
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Unread 02-12-2013, 05:51 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Unread 05-21-2013, 04:49 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Apologies for bumping an old thread. Next up is my annoying G string constantly going out of tune.

When I tune it there is that telltale pinging going on like the string is hanging up in the nut or at the bridge. Tonight's job will be some fettling with a needle file and some application of graphite via a pencil lead.

One thing I would like to add, as a LP player of many years, the best money I've ever spent is on a set of graphite saddles. String breakages now non existant whereas before it was every gig and tuning so stable it stays that way from gig to gig. If the old fashioned filing and pencil lead trick doesn't work on the SG I'll be getting another set of those black saddles...!
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Unread 05-21-2013, 08:11 AM   #23 (permalink)
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When I tune it there is that telltale pinging going on like the string is hanging up in the nut or at the bridge. Tonight's job will be some fettling with a needle file and some application of graphite via a pencil lead.
I had exactly the same problem - completely solved with graphite Used to go sharp with bending and it got to the point that I couldn't do a single bend without 'fixing' it by wiggling the string on the other side of a nut. Not really something you can do mid-song, so I found my playing a bit restricted. Now, however, it's only my newbie little fingers that restrict my bends!
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Unread 05-21-2013, 09:11 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Used to go sharp with bending and it got to the point that I couldn't do a single bend without 'fixing' it by wiggling the string on the other side of a nut.
To me, if its that bad, my bet is on a badly cut nut.
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Unread 05-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Sounds painful!
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