1964 Gibson SG Junior Tuning Machine Options/Polaris White Finish?

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by Holliesfan76, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. Holliesfan76

    Holliesfan76 New Member

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    Hello, I am new to the site, and had a couple of questions about a guitar that I just picked up recently. According to the serial number it is a 1964 SG Junior. It appears that at some point in it's existence someone decided to take the finish off, and put some type of clear finish on it. Vintage Grover tuning machines were installed along with different volume, and tone pots. I would like to remove the Grovers, and go back to original Kluson style tuners. My fear is that the holes may have been enlarged to accommodate the Grovers, but I can't be sure. What is my best approach here? Should I use Kluson's, Gotoh's, Open Back, etc? Going back to finish for my second question...It appears that this guitar's original finish was Polaris White. Inside the control cavity is what appears to be the typical yellowed Polaris white paint, and the the top edge of the fretboard has black fret markers. Some years ago I had a '61 SG(Les Paul) Jr, and do not recall the fret markers being black. Were black fret markers only on the white models? Thanks for any help that can be provided! Also I will provide pics of the guitar soon.
     
  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Welcome!
    Congrats on your 1964 SG Junior!

    https://reverb.com/item/95198-gibso...rs-3-per-plate-oval-button-single-line-nickel

    The tuners in above link are similar to the original style tuners used on SG Juniors and SG Specials of that era, but with improved 15:1 ratio. The tuning post holes more than likely have been enlarged to accommodate the Grovers, but there are adapter bushings available if you wish to restore back to original style tuners. Be sure to measure hole dimensions prior to purchasing adapters.

    https://www.amazon.com/Kluson-Adapter-Bushings-MB65N-LUS-Nickel/dp/B005SUSO5U

    I believe in keeping vintage instruments stock if they have never been modified, but once they have been modified, all bets are off and you can either restore it back to original or make it your own. In this case, I would use whatever tuners you prefer.

    I never have issues with any tuners when the tuner posts are wound using the self-locking method pictured below.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  3. Holliesfan76

    Holliesfan76 New Member

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    Hi, and thanks for the quick reply, and the info. The link you sent of the Klusons are the way I want to go with my SG. My other concern is are the the diameter of the mounting screws for the Grovers the same as the Kluson's? I am hoping that neither of the holes used are not enlarged, or stripped out. I really want to remove the Grovers for a few reasons, but mostly because they are heavier than the original tuners that were used, and the guitar is just not balanced well.
     
  4. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    For the mounting screw holes, if they are slightly off position or too large, I plug them by gluing in wood toothpicks and cutting them flush to the surface after the glue has dried. Then re-pilot the holes in the correct position and slightly smaller than the screw diameter for a tight fit without splitting the wood.

    For piloting the holes, I do them by hand using a pin vise with small bit for better control.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    By fret markers, do you mean the dots on the side of the fretboard or on the top? The side dots should be tortoise shell, which can look black, but the top inlays should be swirled acrylic.
     
  6. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    If previous owner installed Grover tuners, holes on the headstock are 10mm diameter.

    If you want the Junior near stock put 10mm to 8mm adapters, with those adapters you can mount 3 on a plate vintage tuners.

    [​IMG]

    You can put Gibson de Luxe with oval cream knobs using 10mm mounting holes.

    Image temp 5506.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  7. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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  8. Holliesfan76

    Holliesfan76 New Member

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    Hey There, yes the side dots are the ones I am referring to. They are dark in color, but I didn't know that they were tortoise shell. There are a few mysteries with this guitar that I have more questions about. Unfortunately, I've been so busy getting my house ready to put it up for sale....I haven't been able to find time to take pics of the SG. I appreciate that you replied to my post!
     
  9. Holliesfan76

    Holliesfan76 New Member

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    Thanks for the reply on the tuners. They are vintage Grover tuners that were installed, but I believe it was long ago that they were swapped out. I'm not sure if I want to go with the spacers or not, but I didn't think to look into the Gibson Deluxe tuners that are 10mm. Do you know if the existing mounting holes used for the Grovers are the same, and will line up? I would hate to make any new holes. Thanks!
     
  10. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    From my experience in the past replacing Grover Rotomatics with either Gibson Deluxe or Grover Deluxe 135N tuners, the mounting screw holes on the tuners do not line up exactly and are off by half the hole diameter.

    Grover Deluxe 135n are an exact replacement and fit for Gibson Deluxe, but the Grover Rotomatics are not when switching from either of the two listed above.

    Plugging the screw holes by gluing in toothpicks and re-piloting the holes at the correct location for a proper fit is not a big deal. It’s not a good idea IMO to force a screw into an existing hole that is not in the correct position as it will elongate and gall it out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019

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