50s and Modern wiring, what do you think?

Discussion in 'Tone Zone' started by Layne Matz, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    What do you think, feel or prefer regarding these wiring schemes and how they effect your SG?

    Do you know of any other wiring schemes worth trying?

    Personally I feel that switching from modern to 50s really gave me the tone I wanted out of my SG. I hear a distinct clarity and high end that was not even tonally accessible before. I did the same in my strat (which I switched to a master volume and tone long ago) and it had the same effect. I feel like this really brought my guitars to life in a ehole new way and I cant wait to gig with them, they sound so much better and more distinct. I won't go back!!!
     
  2. plankton

    plankton Well-Known Member

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    I tried 50's in an effort to prevent the loss of high end when rolling back the volume. It didn't work for me so I went back to modern, but with Kinman style treble bleed circuits. I use them on all my Gibson style guitars and my Strat too.
     
  3. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    Everytime I read about 50s wiring I get confused about what it is I actually did... But the tone is drastically different. I do not fully understand how all the parts function with eachother. Screenshot_2018-12-15-01-52-04.png
    This was the schematic i was going by but it was an utter disaster and a project for amany hours. Im not positive i did it exactly as intended but the grounding is perfect, its sounds great and everythimg works so I dont have a problem - although I am confused. I'll post some pictures of the cavity later. I dont want to mess with things too much for fear of grounding probelms returning, when i finally got the grounding how it should be I slapped the cover on and called it quits. My soldering iron is destroyed by the many hours of me messing up.
     
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  4. plankton

    plankton Well-Known Member

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    Modern vs. 50's wiring is simply about how the volume and tone are connected.

    In 50's the middle lug of the volume connects to the outer lug of the tone.

    In modern the outer lug of the volume connects to the middle lug of the tone.
     
  5. iblive

    iblive Well-Known Member

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    I did the 50s wiring and the treble bleed on my G400. Also installed CTS pots at same time. About a year later swapped out the stock Epi pups for 57s. To my untrained ear, the wiring made a more noticeable difference that did the pups.
     
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  6. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    But what about the different ways to wire the capacitor? I need to do some more research, just been busy. I'll post pictures of what I did ASAP.
     
  7. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    The cap and tone pot are what create a low pass filter.

    Modern Wiring
    Tone control is BEFORE the Volume

    50's Wiring
    Tone control is AFTER the Volume
     
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  8. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    So by wiring the cap from lug 3 of the tone pot to the back of the tone pot, how does that vary from what I have doen which is connect the tone pot to the volume directly using the cap as per the diagram I posted above? There is a tonal difference, thats very clear to me.
     
  9. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    This is my experience as well, wiring havign more to do with the tone than the pickup itself when you qre comparing two alike humbuckers or single coils that is.
     
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  10. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    20190315_131659-1-1.jpg 20190315_131531-1.jpg
    Please tell me whats going on here...
     
  11. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    Do you know whats going on with my wiring? I dont know what to make of it. It sounds excellent but i dont know why. I finally posted some pictures above.
     
  12. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you got some push-pull pots in there with the small circuit boards attached and quick-connect plugs for the pickups.
     
  13. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    How did the way I wire it change the aignal path and tone? Im aksing you becuase you seemed to know about wiring, I dont. Is there a wiring guru on here? Bad penguin is a tech right?
     
  14. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Can you post a photo of the overall cavity to get a better view of the entire wiring? I need to see the entire circuit that includes the pots, caps, switch, output jack. Something with a view like pictured below?

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    Thats really neat work! I did in my SG Neck repair thread, the site wont let me upload pictures without croping them severely but i posted pictures of the whole thing over there. Hang on, I'll get a link. Thanks for taking the time
     
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  16. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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  17. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    The SG control cavity has a large or small control cavity depending on the year. The early SG from 1961-65 with small guard had the small control cavity and it appears that they switched to the larger control cavity in 1966 the same time as the transition from the small guard to the batwing. Both SG pictured below have batwings, so guard size on modern SG have no bearing on what size the control cavity is.

    left: 2006
    right: 2001

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  18. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    I'd much prefer rhe large one! I dont mind a loss of wood, i need a bit more room. Ive spent literally 30 hours soldering my guitars in the last month or so and I think that when i get a new iron (one that isnt warped and half dead) it will be a piece of cake. I went into it with no experience whatsoever, just the help of thr internet which wasnt enough in this case. It was experience I needed.
     
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  19. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what to make of that wiring in previous posts since it only shows sections of it and not a bird's eye view of the entire control cavity in one photo.

    If you are having difficulty with uploading photos because of size restrictions, maybe stand back further away from the subject when taking photo and when it is cropped, the area you are trying to save will still be present as well as a smaller file size. Some detail will be lost from not being up close, but the overall subject might get across better.

    Another workaround is if you don't have access to a computer with photo editing software is to email the photo to yourself on your phone, and depending in the OS, it will prompt you for size prior to sending. Then download the resized image from your mail app back to your phone and upload to the site that hosts your photos.
     
  20. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, large control cavities are easier to work with IMO with more space. Regardless of size, I like to make a cardboard template of the control cavity and install the components onto the template, wire as much as possible outside the cavity. Then transfer the components into the cavity and connect the pickup leads and ground wire.
     
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