'69 SG Special?

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by DJL000, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. DJL000

    DJL000 New Member

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    Hi Guys,

    I have an SG I believe is a '69 special based on serial number. Can anyone confirm?

    I also wonder why it has silver pickups instead of black. Were they replaced?

    Lastly, do you have any thoughts on value? I have seen similar ones on Reverb but they are typically in a little better shape and have more original components. Mine has a replacement bridge and tuners. I have the original knobs, although one has a piece cracked off. I am not sure how all that affects value.

    Any thoughts appreciated!


    IMG-3698.jpg IMG-3697.jpg IMG-3699.jpg IMG-3700.jpg IMG-3701.jpg
     
  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Welcome!

    Serial numbers from this era are not reliable for dating purposes.

    Check the pot codes.
    Format should be 137YYWW.
    137 = CTS
    YY = Year
    WW = Week
    If pots are original, they will indicate earliest year guitar was built.

    By looking at the neck heel joint and selector switch being so close to the batwing, this one looks like 1968.

    1969 usually has the dot over the "i" of the headstock logo missing.

    The original pickups were black P-90 Soap Bars. This SG Special has been routed for the humbuckers that are currently installed. The wraparound bridge has been replaced with a Leo Quan Badass bridge and the three screws below are plugging the holes where the short vibrola was removed. The tuners have been replaced with Schallers. The knobs were replaced with speed knobs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  3. DJL000

    DJL000 New Member

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    Thanks so much! That is all very helpful. I checked the pots and they indicate 137 6833, so definitely a '68. Too bad so many of the original components are missing. Still plays great though!
     
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  4. syscokid

    syscokid Well-Known Member

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    The guitar's theme of slotted screws just busts me up... :facepalm:. How did you come across this one?

    And..... Welcome to ETSG... :cheers:
     
  5. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Odd that they used slotted screws everywhere on the front of the guitar except for the pickup height adjustment screws. More than likely they used what was available, but I can't help but to wonder what happened to the original pickguard screws.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  6. DJL000

    DJL000 New Member

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    Thanks! I bought this many years ago at a guitar shop in Ohio. I have no idea who did the modifications. Is there a source for screws that would be similar to the original?
     
  7. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    StewMac online has them.

    Pickguard Screws
    #3 x 3/8” Nickel
    Oval Head Phillips

    https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Screws_and_Springs/Pickguard_Screws_for_Gibson.html

    Short Humbucking Ring Screws
    Neck Position
    #2 x 9/16” Black
    Flat Head Phillips

    https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Screws_and_Springs/Humbucker_Mounting_Ring_Screws.html

    Long Humbucking Ring Screws
    Bridge Position
    #2 x 11/16” Black
    Flat Head Phillips

    https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Screws_and_Springs/Humbucker_Mounting_Ring_Screws.html


    The reason for short and long Humbucker Ring Screws is that the bridge position Humbucker Rings are usually taller than the neck position Humbucker Rings because of the neck to body angle on the guitar.

    Those two larger slotted screws on either side of the Humbucker Rings are plugging the holes from the original P-90 height adjustment screws that are no longer in place.

    When I had older SG Specials or Juniors in the past where I removed the short vibrola, I would leave the three mounting screw holes empty. IMO plugging the holes with screws draws more attention to them. It was a common modification back in the day to remove the short vibrola and string the guitar with wraparound bridge only.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
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  8. Gahr

    Gahr Well-Known Member

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    According to the Guitar Dater Project website it is a 1969. Since the dot over the i is not missing, and based on the pot codes, I'm guessing it is either a really early "transitional" 1969, or the website is slightly off (could very well be the case) and it is a late 1968. Lovely guitar, either way.

    What pickups are in it, and how do they sound?

    Personally, I would have swapped the knobs for some period correct witch hats, but that's just a detail. If you want to bring it back to a more "original" state (with increasing the value in mind), all the parts you would need are fairly readily available on eBay or Reverb, both as repos and as vintage parts. But whether it is really worth it is a different matter. I have a weak spot for vintage conversions. Sometimes they just look cool although they are "ruined" as far as the vintage value is concerned. Yours definitely looks really cool.
     
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  9. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Serial numbers from that era are basically useless. This is a '68, no question.
     
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  10. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully the previous owner didn't use different size or thread screws...
     
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  11. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Can always plug the holes by gluing in wood toothpicks or bamboo skewers if really galled and re-pilot the holes slightly smaller diameter so that new screws will be tight.

    I had to do that before on a second hand SG with a loose batwing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
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  12. DJL000

    DJL000 New Member

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    Thanks! That's very helpful. Replacing screws is something I think I can handle myself and should look a lot nicer.
     
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  13. DJL000

    DJL000 New Member

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    They are Gibson humbuckers with the patent decal. I think they are referred to as "T-buckers"? They sound really good. I was under the impression they were the original pickups until I started looking into the history of this guitar a little more. Based on what I found online, these pickups seem to be from the '70s, so must have been replaced fairly soon after someone bought it originally.
     
  14. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, if those are real patent sticker T-Tops, you are a lucky man! They're worth some money now, but I would keep them if I were you, great pickups.
     
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  15. Gahr

    Gahr Well-Known Member

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    Patent sticker T-Tops are great pickups, yes. They were used until 1974. After that the stickers disappeared, and the patent number was stamped on the base plate instead. The guitar would have had P90s originally, but if it sounds good as is I would definitely not bother swapping out the T-Tops!
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  16. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    That's a really nice SG Special.
    I'll bet it sounds great with those T-Tops and the only thing that guitar may need is a proper setup if one has not been done recently.
     
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  17. DJL000

    DJL000 New Member

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    Thanks to all of you for the great information! I am planning to clean it up a bit with proper screws and some vintage knobs at least. I'll keep the pick ups and keep and rocking! Thanks again.
     

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