Headstock angle of a Gibson guitar ...

Discussion in 'Tone Zone' started by DrBGood, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    I'm missing something here. We have people who can evidently hear the difference in feel caused by an extra centimetre or so extra string length behind the bridge, but are apparently oblivious to the several inches difference between the 1st and 3rd strings at the nut end. Sorry, but I don't believe it. This is all in the head.
     
  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide quotes where it was posted that "people can hear the difference in feel"? I don't recall reading that anywhere in this thread.

    The discussion is about how the strings FEEL or how much resistance is felt under the fingers when bending strings a step or two above pitch when playing solos depending on the string break angle over a TOM bridge and why it FEELS different with a shallow break angle when top wrapping the tailpiece vs a sharp break angle when not topwrapping.

    This whole thread started off as a misunderstanding of another thread discussing how the headstock angle was considered a bad design. Somehow the word “sound” accidentally got used in the same sentence and that’s when the misunderstanding started all this nonsense.

    I think it’s clear that no one is upset over the misunderstanding and that it has been cleared up early on in the thread.

    It's OK if others cannot FEEL the difference in string stiffness, and I don't think we need to try to prove or disprove how people perceive things differently. It would be like getting upset over why some folks can read the letters inside the circle pictured below and some cannot.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
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  3. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    I mistyped - obviously I meant "feel the difference", not "hear the difference in feel"
     
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  4. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    No worries.
    This thread was created because I mistyped the word "sound" in another thread.

    It's not a big deal if some folks can see, hear, feel things differently. We all perceive things differently whether it be imaginary or not.
     
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  5. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    I'll never argue against perception.
     
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  6. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Well-Known Member

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    Well, stretching strings that are under tension is a very important part of style for most electric guitarists, and they are able to discern the difference. Why would such sensitive fingers not be able to detect an increase in playing tension based on a guitar's geometry? Why would trapeze tailpieces fade in popularity?

    Play with your guitar a little bit -- raise and lower the tail-piece, try top-wrap and straight-through if you haven't already. It becomes self-explanatory at that point.
     
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  7. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Well-Known Member

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    To be clear, I think it matters up there, too. I'll probably get slammed for that, as well. <shrug>
     
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  8. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    The trapeze went out of fashion because it is a piece of crap. Pull on one string and the whole trapeze slews sideways, detuning all the other strings. Strings need a solid anchorage, which a wraparound or stopbar will provide.
     
  9. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Well-Known Member

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    Gibson puts them on $10,000 jazz boxes ... probably because their sustain characteristics. I can't say I've heard or read of any Super 400 or L-5 owner complaining about notes going out of tune, though. A customer last year brought me a 60s Harmony hollow archtop for a refurbish. I sure didn't have any issues with oblique bends going out of tune, and I tested my work by cranking "Back in Black" on it, lots of bending involved.

    Is it your assertion that this more solid contact affects only tuning stability and not the feel of the guitar?
     
  10. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call it an assertion, but I think it has to be the null hypothesis. If anyone thinks it affects feel, I'd like that demonstrated.
     
  11. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Well-Known Member

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    My fingers demonstrate it to me. I don't have the equipment to go through rigorous experimentation ... if you don't notice it, you don't notice it.
     
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  12. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Hence my earlier comment about never arguing against perception. It is the mapping of perception to reality I don't quite get. Minds are vastly more complex then we give credit for.
     
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  13. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everybody, this discussion turned out better than it started.
     
  14. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    But did you reach a conclusion? It certainly was interesting and wide-ranging.
     
  15. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Well-Known Member

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    My lack of testing equipment does not confirm your argument.
     
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  16. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    Did I what ? :rofl:

    Not thinking the headstock angle had any influence on a guitar sound/tone, I wanted to see if there was anything I was missing. I guess not.
     
  17. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Isn't almost everything?:cool:
     
  18. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Mostly, but it would be nice to think that at least some of it was an analogue of objective reality.
     
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  19. Daniel.S

    Daniel.S Well-Known Member

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    Less break angle = less broken strings.
     
  20. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, I find that strings break more often on a guitar equipped with a Floyd Rose and locking nut setup which has no break angle at either end once the nut is locked down.

    I rarely break strings on my Gibsons with break angles and if I do it is usually at the ball end of the string which is a manufacturing defect of the string. If a string breaks at any other location, it is usually because there is a burr somewhere such as on a bridge saddle, one of the holes on the tailpiece where the string passes through or a fret that is cutting the string causing it to break.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
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