Help with vintage SG purchase

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by Kitarkus, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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    New here...hoping I can gain some knowledge. Interested in a local guitar...seller says dead mint closet queen virtually unplayed...looks like a 1965. I see dealers asking a lot of money for these....but I don't see them selling for those huge dollars....big dollars....but not huge.

    Is this case original. Fair price? Anything look strange? Difference between early and late 65's?
    Any all assistance appreciated. I've exhausted the web and need your assist please.

    Sorry for the pic quality...best I could get from the Seller. Edit....serial number is 260XXX.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I’m not a fan of paying high dollar for guitars because they are vintage or limited in availability. At the end of the day it’s just a musical instrument, a tool.

    I purchase guitars to play them, not as financial investments. Not a fan of collecting things either.
     
  3. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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    Thank you for that cerebral outpouring!
     
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  4. fernieite

    fernieite Member

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    That junior looks very nice! I don't see anything that looks wonky.

    1965 could have a slightly narrower neck width, I think. 1 11/16" at the nut was the width prior to the change. Some guys prefer the narrower neck width and some don't.

    You should check the pot dates as well.

    In 65 Gibson started changing some metal parts to chrome plated, instead of nickel. I'm not sure if this applied to a junior's wraparound bridge though.

    Oh yeah, in 65, I think Gibson may have started phasing out Brazilian rosewood. Perhaps this one still has?

    Fair price? I dunno - $3,000? Maybe I'm off...
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  5. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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    Heck...what other metal parts are there on these simple beasts?....ya...I think it refers to the bridge. This seems like an early 1965 given what I can see/know from lousy photos and the serial number. I plan to pull the pots. Thanks for the help.
     
  6. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  7. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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    Respectfully...and I realize that I am new here...but I'm not sure that you are really addressing my questions. That is ok...I get it...and I know that you are frustrated. You are directing me to a sold archive from Cream City of a refinished SG Jr. with a cracked neck repair...and recounting how unhappy you are that vintage prices have risen exponentially. There is no way to know when that guitar sold. Not trying to be harsh...but really?

    You are getting towards my point....which is....that list prices often are not reflective of reality....now more than ever. Does anyone have any real world experience with SG Jr prices these days?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  8. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Sold listings for 1965 SG Junior.

    https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=1965 sg junior&show_only_sold=true

    Not frustrated.
    I've had vintage SG Specials and a Junior in the past.
    Just think it's silly what these sell for when it was originally marketed as a student guitar. And the ones finished in Polaris White are more expensive for some reason. Never understood that. It's the same guitar as the ones finished in Cherry, just different color.

    Don't get me wrong, I love Juniors. My '58 Reissue LP Junior DC is my favorite guitar to play.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  9. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    My 400£ Junior


    Les Paul Jr 58.jpg

    :io:
     
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  10. njpaulc

    njpaulc Active Member

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    I am always wary of SG's from the '60's that do not have Maestros. Having grown uo during that time period, and spending many hours standing at the window of We Buy And Sell Guitars on 48th St in Manhattan looking at scores of used SG's. I have never seen one without either a Maestro or three screw holes where it was mounted. I'm not saying that they don't exist, but they are rare. Check it out carefully. Being the owner of a '68 Special I would like to say $2500 to 3000, but I thin, from experience, that is on the upper end of the price range.
     
  11. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen a 1961-62 SG Special with the Short Vibrola. Those had the non-compensated wraparound bridge that was installed at an angle (not parallel to the pickup).

    By 1963, they switched to the compensated wraparound bridge with lightning bar and Short Vibrola on the SG Specials. The bridge on those were installed parallel to the pickup.

    I rarely see 1966-70 SG Specials with batwings that did not have the Short Vibrola or the three holes left behind from where it was removed.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  12. Herbie74w

    Herbie74w Active Member

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  13. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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    I had thought that the vibrato didn't come standard until late '65 or '66. Certainly there are many standard SG Jr's '65 or < without vibrato and without holes...as they should be.
     
  14. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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    https://www.samash.com/spotlight/gi...-SADC&cm_mmc=LinkShare-_-Affiliates-_-na-_-na
     
  15. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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    Duplicate
     
  16. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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  17. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  18. Kitarkus

    Kitarkus New Member

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    Oh. Sorry. I thought it might be helpful to have an analysis of the 'time value of money' and an understanding of 'supply and demand'.
    "The Les Paul Goldtop and Les Paul Custom had a steep price point for a player with an interest, but not a serious financial commitment level in a new solid body electric. In 1954 the Les Paul Junior was the cheapest electric guitar in Gibson’s entire catalog; at $119.00 The Les Paul (standard) had a price tag of $250.00 plus $43.00 for the “Faultless” case*. The Custom model was a whopping 375.00 with case. Today the price sounds too good to be true. Add inflation and the cost of living and you get a better idea of the relative cost: The Gold top with case costs roughly $2800.00 and the Custom chimes in at about $4050.00 in 2019 dollars. Further analysis, to add perspective: A Les Paul Custom was 1/3 of the way to a brand new 1954 Ford Fairlane Crown Victoria. The value of a dollar, and the cost of living was vastly different."
     
  19. njpaulc

    njpaulc Active Member

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    I have seen only a few of the angled tailpiece Sg Specials and Jr's. I have seen more sideways vibrola SG Standards and Customs than '61 to '62 Specials and Jr's. This is really an anecdotal observation, for example, I only became aware of the ebony block tailpiece about 10 years ago, having never seen one in person.
     
  20. OBX351

    OBX351 New Member

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    Question from OP "Difference between early and late 65's?"

    1965 was a transitional year for Gibson, they went to a smaller nut, 1 9/16". Some guitars in '65 had necks made in '64 that had the nut width of 1 11/16 and guitars with necks made in '65 or after had the 1 9/16" nut. Also, generally speaking, the price of the '65 and after SG is usually less than one of the '64 and before. It doesn't mean that one is better than the other, but '64 is considered one of the cut off dates for vintage instruments because of production numbers going up and quality going down. Blame it on the Beatles playing on the Ed Sullivan Show almost exactly 56 years ago to the date.

    To sum up in general terms, later '65 SGs had thinner necks and in theory should be less expensive than SGs from '64 and before. For me, the bargain SG is a '64 spec guitar with a '65 serial number. I've had several over the years.
     

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