Let's see your vintage SG!

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by Kevin James, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. Mike Leaf

    Mike Leaf Member

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    Thanks , I can only read 137 70... on 2 pots but the rest of the code is soldered on, I will try to look at them more closely as fast as I can find the time.

    I am positive the post are original , the serial number is also important its 956964. I had a 1970 LP Custom in almost the exact same range (958......)

    That guitar had 7014 pots. so im thinking maybe the late spring /early summer of 1970? Considering a 4-8 weeks delay from manufactured to soldered in.

    Walnut was also a new coulour for 1970 right ? Don´t think i have seen any walnut 69's, but I havent studied this subject to deep.
     
  2. sgtbeefheart

    sgtbeefheart Well-Known Member

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    It must be one of the last to not have "Made in USA" on the
    headstock.
     
  3. Mike Leaf

    Mike Leaf Member

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    Thats the colour I like the best from early 60´s SG´s , my 61 has the exact same red .... I dont think it looked like this when new, they were a lot darker back in the day. I can just sit all day and watch this guitar , its the prestine 'cherry' finish.
     
  4. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    Just fer $#!T$ & Giggles, I posted my 71 with its walnut finish.You can see my Cherry finish 69 SG in the background.
    [​IMG]
    I've never come across a 69 walnut finish either. So looking at my 71 will have to do for now. Check out that smaller block inlay on the fretboard. People like to talk smack about the Norlin years but I find them to be some of the most interesting due to all the changes and variation. The half moon front mounted control panel for instance only lasted from 71 to 72. In theory, they were a good idea. As far as the looks go however, for me, I'll take all the wood I can get to look at on the front of a guitar.
     
  5. Mr. Happy

    Mr. Happy Well-Known Member

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    Cool looking SG you got there, pal... Share some more pics!
     
  6. GTSG

    GTSG Active Member

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    Nice
     
  7. Blindbrett

    Blindbrett New Member

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    1970 Sg?

    I am new to the forum and thought I would start by showing a pair of sg's that I restored. I believe that the first one is a 1970. It was in a flood and had some headstock damage (as you can see in the second photo) which has obliterated the serial number. I have no information on it and have not been able to find very many photos of similar models with both the lp pickguard and non-beveled horns. It has a very fat neck that is a bit of a struggle at times if you have short fingers but the tone of this guitar is unlike any other guitar I own. The other is a 1968 EB-0 that was nothing more than expensive kindling when I found it. The only original hardware on it was the knobs. It had been sanded several times and badly refinished and the headstock was broken in 3 places...not at the nut but vertically between the tuners. My brother is a luthier and he did an amazing job of rebuilding the headstock. I stripped the body, stained and used tru-oil as a clearcoat. We routed for a bridge pickup and I managed to find a bridge cover at a local used music store. I put stacked pots in to avoid drilling anymore holes in the body. The current bridge does not have the correct string spacing so the strings are a bit close to the edge of the neck near the body but with my playing skills, its not a big deal...lol. It is a very comfortable bass to play and very light. I am glad I was able to revive it.
     

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  8. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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  9. Blindbrett

    Blindbrett New Member

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    Thanks for the kind words Relic61. I took a look at the pots and they seem to be original but I can't decipher the codes. The codes all match and read 5 0938 DJ C8. I couldn't locate any info on that code online. I may have another go at trying to make out the serial number but I doubt I will get anywhere as you can barely make out one number...I will let you know what I find. Maybe if I had one of those CSI blacklights......
     
  10. sgtbeefheart

    sgtbeefheart Well-Known Member

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  11. altoricky

    altoricky New Member

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    My '63

    [​IMG]

    And my '58 "SG" Junior

    [​IMG]

    You can see the '63 in action here Cocaine - YouTube

    The camera work isn't great but I can't play and direct at the same time.
     
  12. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    Play, direct, sing & smoke all at the same time while getting a quote from frikin Geico. lol

    That 62 sounds great. Nice & fat bro. Not bad for video sound either. What amp were you playing through? I couldn't see it but it sounded real full with nice crunch to it. Very nice. Also, How do you like that sideways vibrato on the 63? I hear they actually stay in tune rather well.

    I love both your babys. How are those neck profiles and is there any chance on an angled shot that captures the neck profile on both of them? I always loved those fatter necks that Gibby don't make anymore. They just have a nice solid feel.

    Now what exactly is that 58 called? I thought SG wasn't an official name until 61. It looks like a double cut away LP Jr. The horns are rounded and not arched or pointed &, there is no bevel to the body. Comon' now. Quit teasin.
     
  13. altoricky

    altoricky New Member

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    Hey Relic61,

    Thanks for your comments.

    I guess I was stretching things a bit with the '58, although the double cuts were referred to as SGs when they came out possibly to differentiate them from the single cuts which were still being produced along side them in '58.

    The amp is a a Line 6 Flextone 111 (sharp intake of breath from all the valve aficionados). I also have a POD XT Pro rack mount running into a Marshall 9005 power amp into a 2 x 12 cab but the Marshall is blowing mains fuses at the moment and I can't afford to get it fixed.

    I don't use the sideways vib on the '63 so I have it clamped down. I took the springs out and replaced them with stainless steel tube. I love the look of them but the way they work doesn't suit me and I have a Strat with a Floyd Rose if I want to get into some dive bombing.

    Having said that, I saw Tony McPhee with the Groundhogs ( not sure if they made it across the pond ) at the Marquee in London back in the early 70s and he was using a sideways vib to great effect and didn't seem to have too may tuning issues.
     
  14. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks my brotha from an English mother. lol. So what exactly was that 58 called? It has all the looks of a LP Jr double cut away. Pick guard, body thickness, P-90 & dot inlay neck. What is your opinion on what this was actually called & sold as back then? I would guess they aren't all that common. Boy its just a couple of years away from the 61 release of that Les Paul SG & you can totally see where things evolved from. Real cool guitar man.

    I was surprised to hear that tone was a SS line 6. If thats the sound you get, who cares if there is no tubes. Sounds like fun to me.

    One last ?? What is going on with the pickups in the 63? I see a gold one and one with no cover. That leads me to believe the original PAFs have been replaced but, replaced with what would be the ??.

    Post some more pics of that 58. Side angle, neck shot & headstock would be real guitar porn 4 me. Thanks Brotha!
     
  15. sgtbeefheart

    sgtbeefheart Well-Known Member

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    I would think that's exactly what it is, here's a '59

    Gibson Les Paul Junior 1959 Cherry Guitar For Sale GuitarPoint

    Looking at pics of others, it seems that the knobs are closer together on
    altoricky's Jr., though it might be an illusion.
     
    Susihukkanen likes this.
  16. javamagic

    javamagic Well-Known Member

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    I think it was only the double-cutaway LP Special that was called SG (before the introduction of the real contoured SGs).
     
  17. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    [quote javamagic] "I think it was only the double-cutaway LP Special that was called SG (before the introduction of the real contoured SGs)."[/quote]

    Thats why I asked for a headstock pic. If its still original it should say Les Paul Jr on it. I am truly interested in accurate facts surrounding Gibson guitars & I've honestly have never heard of anything before 61 being called an SG. As in the actual abbreviated letters "SG". If that is true, I really would like to know about it from a point of me being able to be historically accurate.

    From what I've read, I just dont recall ever reading about the SG name being used before 61. It seems very possible that it was as it stood for solidbody guitar but, if this guitar had Les Paul junior on the headstock, then it really isn't an SG right? Or am I missing something with my line of thinking. It wouldn't be the first time. Sorry for pushing the issue and sounding like a whatever, I just have an insatiable thirst when it comes to knowing things like this & what the factual historical truth is. So thanks for understanding. Now where's that headstock pick? lol. Well, I guess after seeing what I've found since looking, I really dont need a pic to know what the headstock reads. The question I really would like answered is about the SG name being used or not before 61.

    Here's a shot of that 59 that is real similar to that 58.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here's a 58 Les Paul Junior below.

    [​IMG]

    To me, I am left with little doubt that the guitar is a Les Paul Junior. The area that is open for clarity would be Gibsons marketing the guitar and using the 'SG' moniker before 61. That is harder to verify & is going to take finding some literature or what not. I know, I'm asking a lot. I personally will be doing some searches to satisfy my curiosity & will post what I find, or don't find. That 58 is still a nice solidbody guitar regardless.
     
  18. altoricky

    altoricky New Member

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    OK, so there's a story with both guitars.

    The '58 is, as you surmised, a double cut Les Paul Junior. I bought it at Sam Ash in New York in May 2008. I'd always wanted a DC junior and this one, due to some previously repaired damage was just about affordable for me. My wife said go for it, so I did. It was $2700 which at the time was about £1350. Its had a headstock break which has been very well repaired and some wood replaced over the control cavity area and a refin. My guess is that something heavy fell on it and smashed the wood around the knobs. It plays great and sounds killer and I love the looks of the DCs although I have to admit I find the neck a bit fat for my hands. At some point I plan to set it up for slide.

    The '63 I've had since September 2008. It was a bit of a basket case when I got it. They guy I got it from had previously sold the pickups/rings and pots/knobs/switch/jack. It also has had a break at the headstock and a rather ugly repair job and no serial number. Generally though it was in very good condition and had minimal wear on the original frets. As a result of these issues it was also affordable, and the black Type 1 case is in really good condition.

    So I set about bringing it back to life. I've had various pickups and pots and caps in it. Currently it has a gold 57 Classic Plus in the bridge and a late 70's Maxon from a Greco Les Paul Custom in the neck. Pots are CTS 500k with a bumblebee on the neck pickup and an orange drop on the bridge. I've also put a new set of Klusons on as the originals, although in very good condition were very stiff. I still have them of course. Finally I have put a set of metal saddles in the bridge as I find the nylon ones lack a bit of bite in the tone department. Suffice to say it has a great neck, chunky without being fat and its a real joy to play.

    I had been looking for an affordable early SG for ages. Back in 1972 I bought a totally original '64 SG Standard which was utterly fabulous and my main guitar throughout the 70s. Then in about 1979 I suffered a period of total aberration and decided to sell it to fund the purchase of a brand new 3 bolt-neck, big headstock Strat which turned out to be a piece of junk. I have cringed many times since when I think of what a big mistake that was.

    So how do I know its a '63 I hear you asking. Well I don't for certain but the neck joint puts it in the late '62 to early '65 period. The sideways vib was discontinued in mid to late '63 as was the Les Paul on the TRC and it has a 6 screw pick guard which I believe didn't come in until some time in '63. So best guess is '63. Of course it could be a fake, but I don't think so.

    There you have it. I will try and get some more pics up soon.

    Cheers guys.
     
  19. altoricky

    altoricky New Member

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    Further to the DC Junior SG debate I have to say that I was being slightly tongue in cheek in my first post which is why I put the SG in quote marks.

    I was looking for an excuse to post an extra pic.

    Having said that here is an excerpt from 'The Vintage Guitar Guy' website


    "Mid 1958 Gibson "Les Paul SG" Junior guitar specs:


    body style change to symmetrical rounded double cutaways, thick slab mahogany body, cherry red finish around serial number "8 49xx" (but note that single cutaway Junior have been seen as late as 1959). The peghead still says "Les Paul Junior", but often this body style is referred to as the "Les Paul SG" body style."

    The page is at
    Vintage Guitars Info - Gibson solidbody vintage guitar collecting


     
  20. javamagic

    javamagic Well-Known Member

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    Let me clarify my post.

    As far as I know the Gibson 1960 catalogue lists the double-cutaway LP Special (Normal and 3/4 scales) as the SG Special and the LP Junior in lime mahogany TV finish as the SG-TV. The LP Junior in cherry was still listed as the LP Junior!

    Confused?
     

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