Minimum space between tail piece and bridge to be able to fit on a Duesenberg Les Trem II?

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by NoiseNinja, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Active Member

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    So I am seriously pondering on installing a Duesenberg Les Trem II on my Epiphone SG Special, however I am worried that the distance between the holes for the stop tail piece and the bridge on it is too tight for there to be room for the trem.

    Looking at some images of Gibson SGs with the Duesenberg trem has been installed on them the space seems quite tight, and comparing them to my cheap Epiphone SG it seems like the distance between the stop tail piece and the bridge on mine is even tighter than usual for an SG, which is what got me worried.

    So can anyone inform me of the distance between where the lower mounting hole of the Duesenberg trem tailpiece ends (the end towards the bridge) and then to the end of the lower part of the trem spring that is supposed to be able to rest on the guitar's body?

    Seems like I only got 25 mm ( or 1" ) of space at absolute most, maybe even a bit less, on my SG before the bridge mounting would get in the way of the lower part of the trem spring, measured as stated in the above question.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  2. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Why waste good money on a dodgy aftermarket trem on a bottom shelf guitar? [​IMG]
    Save your money and buy a new Standard 61 Maestro or find a 2005 Deluxe
    [​IMG]
     
  3. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Active Member

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    Uhm....

    Okay......

    :rolleyes:

    Look, I don't have a lot of money and happen to like my cheap guitar, nothing wrong with it, as good as perfect fretwork, feels nice to play, and with some thorough adjustments of the pickups, including the individual adjustable pole pieces, as well as a bit of EQ'ing, I even got it to sound just the way I prefer it, so I could ask the question: "Why waste money I can't really afford to spare on getting something else, just to be able to flash a more fancy name?".

    And I've actually heard good things about the Duesenberg trem.

    Also I kind of feel like I really shouldn't be supposed to need to defend my choices in order for people to bother with helping me answer a simple question, if they happen to be able to do so.

    If not I can hardly blame them for that, hell, I asked because I don't know the answer myself, but that certainly doesn't make it an open invitation to ridicule my question.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  4. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, that's just the way he is... best ignored most of the time. :)

    You've heard good things about the Duesenberg trem for good reasons. They may not be as good-looking as other systems, but in my experience they work at least as well, if not better. I fitted one to a GS1000, as there wasn't enough room for a Bigsby on there. But it is very tight - the tail piece and bridge are closer together than on my SGs. This is the best pic I have that shows how tight it is:
    [​IMG]
    But they don't actually touch...

    Where are you measuring from? The gap between the screw edge and bridge thumb wheel is about an inch (I'd have to remove it to measure precisely). So if you're measuring from the centre of the screw hole, it sounds like you don't have enough space - otherwise you probably will be OK.

    FWIW, there's nothing wrong with asking that question. I had the same question for the above installation - and I couldn't get an answer anywhere. So I bought one and decided I'd fit it to my Manta Ray if it didn't fit the GS1000.
     
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  5. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Look, I don't care if you have a lot of money and honestly I'd be as concerned if not more with a client who wanted to put that silly gizmo on a $2K guitar. If you pour money into a cheap guitar you certainly won't have any more money and you won't discover why a few bucks saved gets you a much nicer axe.
    Here's a video that shows the conversion you seek.

    If you like the effect and appearance, good.
    If you don't want honest responses to such inquiries, don't ask.
     
  6. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    Frankly I think those Maestro Lyre vibrolos are dodgey. They are way over priced for what they are. You could probably pickup a Bigsby knock off for about $50 and you will not have issues of too shallow of a break angle with a low bridge.

    Cheers Peter.
     
  7. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Active Member

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    Thank you @SG standard. :smile:

    Also I actually kind of like the way it looks, to me a Bigsby is way too bulky looking.

    And I guess thanks to you @Biddlin too, despite your obnoxious attitude, since it turned out you had just the answer I was looking for after all.

    You sure have a strange way of expressing your, by the way completely unneeded, concerns on my behalf.

    In some ways somewhat similar to how my dad, to this day, has this bad habit of putting on this patronizing angry tone in his voice when he does it, and seems to have this odd idea that his pieces of advise are always the ultimate right way to approach an issue.

    If I were to give you a friendly but honest piece of advice you should consider to reconsider your attitude, it is really not very charming, and I am sure if you did so you would encounter less people going into a defensive mode and experience less misunderstandings.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  8. AngelDeVille

    AngelDeVille Well-Known Member

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  9. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    Watched that video and you may have to be carefull with the break angle with that tremolo as well. Not much of a break angle on that SG in the vid. I had an issue with a Maestro Lyre vibrolo and it was unuseable because my bridge was quite low and couldn't get the strings to beak over the saddles. That is one thing about the Bigsbys. The strings go under the bar and up across the bridge.

    Cheers Peter.
     
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  10. PixMix

    PixMix Well-Known Member

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    I have one currently mounted on an LP Special. It's about 5-6 mm space between the base of the spring and the post of the bridge. This one's a Les Term II TM85C, just like the one shown on the video. It works really well and feels very solid. It's made in Germany. There's another less expensive version, I have no experience with that one.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Active Member

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    Yeah, I did notice that, and share the concern.

    The bridge on the Epiphone SG Special needs to be quite low in order to get a reasonable action, and mine is almost all the way down at minimum on the high E string side and just a mm (about 0,039") or so raised from minimum position on the low E string side (Low E string action = about 1,8mm (0,07") / High E string action = about 1.4mm (0.055")), and I really don't want having to raise my action just to be able to have the trem work on my guitar.

    His bridge though, from what I can discern from the video, seems to be at about minimum position as well, so perhaps it will be fine on my SG too.

    A bit of a risk to run though, to buy the trem if it won't work on my SG Special, since I don't have any other guitars where it could be installed on instead.

    Even if it is cheap for what you actually get 90$ is still a lot to spend for me, as I already don't have that much money at my disposal, on something I will have no use of.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  12. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    :rofl:
    Nah, I can only give well reasoned advice based on 53 years of playing and modding experience, then I have to let the benighted put crap on their guitars. To quote Kung Fu Charley Jackson, "The first step to enlightenment is to open your eyes. If you see your own ileum, step two is obvious.":cool:
    Or, as Mrs. Gump says:
     
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  13. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    So no invitation to tea? I'm shattered.
     
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  14. AngelDeVille

    AngelDeVille Well-Known Member

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    I did see you had it covered, I just think I haven’t used the term “fugly” enough today, so I was getting jittery.
     
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  15. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Active Member

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    If you chose to follow my advice, then sure, why not?

    It would be hell of a trip just for a cup of tea though, and I have a feeling somehow that you are not really willing to accept my one condition anyway either.
     
  16. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    I could have answered, "What a splendid idea! Do show us the results. I'm sure they'll be stunning." I would have been lying, but charming, no?
    I guess I should stop being honest and blow smoke up the collective skirt.
     
  17. RazorReaver

    RazorReaver New Member

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    Just my two cents, against good advice and close-to-all odds, I once installed a floyd rose on an SG. For quite a few years it didn't even need a locking nut.

    A lot of measuring went into it, but not a lot of thought. I was lucky there too.
     
  18. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Active Member

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    I honestly don't expect you to understand this after what I've seen from you, but just because you are honest doesn't mean you have to be it in a thoughtless, rude, insensitive and obnoxious manner.

    And just because your subjective honest opinion is that my gear is utter crap and that I am an idiot doesn't mean that you are obligated to voice it out loud, and it certainly doesn't make it the objective truth either.

    If you truly are concerned about me ending up wasting my money and getting disappointed with how I choose my gear and how I choose to use it there are plenty of ways you could have voiced that concern in a perfectly friendly and nice manner that would not have made it sound more like it really was meant as an insult, however you chose not to, which tells me one of two things about you, and right now I am kind of leaning towards the less flattering option in my book.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  19. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Total projection. I said your guitar was
    because it is the lowest priced SG in the Epiphone line. I in fact was discouraging your wasting money and time by encouraging you to go for a better, more functional instrument. When you ask a question here, people are going to respond. I did so directly and politely. then YOU come apart and start with "defend my choices...ridicule my question."
    Even with that impertinent response, I give you another entirely polite answer, including a video of the conversion you are considering and I get "obnoxious attitude" from you.
    I give you pertinent and accurate responses and I get that crap and your daddy issues from you. Who's rude here?
     
  20. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Active Member

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    I invited you over for tea and this is what I get.

    Also you don't know what projection is, but I guess that doesn't matter to you, since you are always right and never wrong, so it must be the people who write dictionaries that are just being stupid.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020

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