Missed the Point?

Discussion in 'Epiphone SG' started by AudioFreque3000, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    We have different definitions of good design. If one wants a combat tough guitar, get a Fender. In 1972 I was on my way to a gig with my Strat tied to the sissy bar of my BSA 650. Just before the Ashby off-ramp, the Strat blew off and into the #4 lane of I80 West. I stopped, braved the cars to pick it up. The case was roached, but the two-tone 67 Strat was fine.
     
  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I think that both sides of the argument are valid in that it may not be the best design structurally to survive accidents or intentional misuse as a sledge hammer, but I would also agree that the break angle probably has a lot to do with why the instrument sounds the way it does and is a necessary design element.
     
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  3. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Well-Known Member

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    Probably a structurally-sound design.
     
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  4. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Well-Known Member

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    As you said earlier in this thread, "I like volutes". But who wants to chase progress when chasing tradition is easier work?
     
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  5. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I never understood why they did away with volutes. It seems like doing so was a step backwards in progress.
     
  6. Kabrijj

    Kabrijj Well-Known Member

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    First of all, sympathies for the broken headstock. I have seen a few Gibsons and even a few Epis with busted headstocks, and it's never fun or easy.

    I would argue, however, that it is not a design flaw -- a weak point, maybe. An area that does require some extra caution, definitely. But in the course of normal guitar applications, the headstock isn't going to just break. It's got to be abused in some way for that wood to fracture.

    Using the car analogy: if you crash into a tree and crush the front end of your vehicle, is that a design flaw?

    As far as any sympathies from communicating with Gibson/Epiphone... yeah, they probably could have been nicer but it's not their job, nor obligation or responsibility to do so. I can only imagine they get inundated with all sorts of inquiries -- from the silly to the serious -- and they've got to wade through it all, and try to get down to business efficiently and with as minimal brain damage as possible.

    Hopefully it doesn't sour you on the SG in general, as it's a pretty bitchin' guitar (I think there's a few of us here who would agree). If it did, well I get it. As someone else stated, try a Fender - I've only ever seen one Fender with a break in the headstock (and that was a hairline crack, at that). If you do decide to try another Gibson or Epi, maybe this will be a lesson -- hard learned, to be sure -- to take a little more precaution.
     
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  7. AudioFreque3000

    AudioFreque3000 New Member

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    What a great bunch of stories, insight, and advice. Thank you, again! Oh, yes, volutes and I would still like an SG. ;)

    Alright, so here is my last word on the whole matter and why I feel it should be important to you. I think we all shuddered a bit when Gibson announced they were filing for bankruptcy not long ago. The idea that a core American music company could ceased to be if they didn’t pull through it was truly scary. Articles littered the internet about Gibson’s mis-management, bad acquisitions, poor quality control, lousy customer service, and disheartened employees. But, alas, they DID pull through and our fears were calmed, for the moment. But what really changed?

    You would think they would be leaner and hungrier to maintain their status as one of the world’s premier guitar makers. That really means keeping every customer and building solid relationships. That doesn’t mean, that the customer is always right. It would NOT be right for me to demand that they fix my guitar. And, I DON’T expect them to it. I do expect, though, that when I go through the trouble of elevating my concerns to a special service Gibson has put in place to “listen” to their customers, that they actually listen to my concerns and not throw policy in my face.

    I feel Mr. Greene’s response harkens back to the questionable practices that contributed to Gibson’s trouble of not long ago. If they have not learned and evolved from their bankruptcy experience then they are most certainly headed down the same road as before.
     
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  8. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Well-Known Member

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    All good points. Bear in mind that it often takes a while for new leadership to inculcate a different -- and yes, hopefully better -- corporate culture.
     
  9. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    ya and funnily enough, we aren't even talking about a Gibson guitar
    here in this thread. Or a Gibson employee...

    Yes, Gibson owns Epiphone, and yes, Epiphone manufactures their versions
    of Gibson's designs. It's very likely that a Gibson employee, trying to save
    his company and his job, might have been nicer to the OP.

    But the OP was talking to a representative of Epiphone or am I wrong?
    Epiphone trucks along merrily, selling guitars worldwide, raking in the
    hard earned shekels, drachma, yen, rubles, Kroner, Euros and roopies
    of hard working guitar teachers worldwide. Epi guitars keep getting better
    and better, but I'll bet they get irate customers yelling at them in
    many obscure languages... So I don't know what their
    "customer service" policies might or might not be. Or if they even care.

    BUT Epiphone has actually gone to some trouble to
    "Improve" Gibson's design for a number of guitars.
    The back angle'd headstock is not a Gibson design. The tradition
    of doing this goes way back, read that Way Way Back.
    lute.JPG
    Guys can complain about Gibson guitar substandard designs on internet fora, but it's mostly blowing smoke. The angled headstock tradition is a tradition for a reason. I maintain that it's done to achieve the best possible tone.
    (Fender guitars achieve awesome tone without it, and that's progress)

    Ye aulde Minstrel learned early that he should never lean his lute against
    a greazy tavern wall, or hang it on his amp, or let it fall against Milady's
    leg, or too near Milord's Wolfhounds or Sir Byron Barclay's Battle-axe. And that tradition continues as well.

    Epiphone guitars use a scarf joint to strengthen the weak point so
    graphically illustrated above. This helps precent breakage...
    Headstock back@100.jpg
    You can also see that the back angle is less... this is a compromise
    intended to help prevent breakage. So they are obviously trying to help,
    Just as Norlin Gibson was trying to prevent breakage when they added the volute to '70s SGs. The volute is a good idea. Gibson carved one on
    my 2012 SG special '70s trib.

    The reason Gibson abandoned using the volute after buying themselves
    back from Norlin was because guitarists INSISTED that they make Gibsons the way they used to. The amount of OCD out there about whether or not an instrument is close enough to what was made
    60+ years ago seems really nuts to me. But it's there, and we all
    know it. Right down to the placement of the decal that says Les Paul.

    What can Epiphone do? Maybe like the OP says, and hire customer
    service reps that can maintain a level of compassion in a hostile
    environment. And pay them well... *grins That would be a difficult
    job.
     
  10. jtees4

    jtees4 Well-Known Member

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    Not to anyone in particular, just my opinion. The best and most expensive and most sought after violins are VERY fragile. So what. they sound the best. Gibsons can be fragile, don't buy them if you don't want to. Nobody is forcing anyone.
     
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  11. Lunacy the Faded

    Lunacy the Faded Active Member

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    It sucks your guitar broke. Pleading to customer service your own personal merit is pathetic though man. You could be a gentle giant or raging jackass trying to get a corporation to bend on a policy like that and they would shove the rules at your chest, if they treated you special and you spread the news that would be just awful for them.

    Just dont play anymore SGs if you think the design is not good enough. The SG is smashing, Pete Townshend quite liked them and he didnt mind breaking them all up either lol. You know all of us like minded SG owners appreciate the honest and intelligent responses you got from customer service aswell as the past and current SG designs.

    They would never respond the way you wish of them.. Tell me how can they ever make any money giving out USA labor Gibsons when people accidentally break an imported labor Epiphone... Break the Gibson now what do you get a 1959 Les Paul? I think professionalism is the only guarentee you get when emailing a company. If the problem you had was covered by warranty then it would have been handled for you. The people read your email because they are on company time, to handle business. Not trying to be rude but they dont have time to go back and forth with you about your feelings. Appreciate the resources they gave you to seek out repair because thats what your pushing for.

    Never use gorilla super glue to fix a headstock, use hide glue maybe do some woodworking to put a reinforcement through the break before gluing aswell. Superglue will almost completely prevent any future repair work on wooden instruments vs hide glue which has been used for centuries.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  12. Beery Swine

    Beery Swine Member

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    clap clap clap
     
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