neck angle

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by charriman, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. charriman

    charriman New Member

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    Anybody know why they switched from a 3 degree neck angle to a 4.25 degree angle? Cant wrap my head around that change since the change requires jacking the bridge up so high.
     
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  2. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Gibson tolerance on neck angle appears to be about 10 degrees. OK, that's an exaggeration, but I've seen SGs that could not be adjusted to a decent action because the bridge was bottomed out. I've seen others where the bridge was almost hanging off the posts. An announcement of a 1.25 degree change is somewhat of a joke.
     
  3. Chubbles

    Chubbles Well-Known Member

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    +/- 200%
     
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  4. Sootio

    Sootio Well-Known Member

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    Mine all seem to be within the normal range.
     
  5. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    mine too... Hey, welcome to ETSG!
    If your bridge seems too high, you can top wrap
    the strings.
    IMG_1108@100.jpg
    Gibson guitars are made with a back angle of usually 4 degrees, but plus or minus one degree is within the spec. So figure anywhere between three and five degrees is "normal."

    That's why the bridge is adjustable, so the player can compensate. Les Pauls have the same spec, and the same "normal" range. So do all the ES series guitars.

    Instruments that are out of spec would like be replaced if returned during the warranty period.

    But this thread reinforces ETSG wisdom:

    PLAY IT BEFORE
    YOU BUY IT

    And let me state one more of our unwritten
    social contract's stipulations:

    PICTURES OR IT
    NEVER HAPPENED
     
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  6. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what the big deal is, just raise the tailpiece so that the strings do not hit the back edge of the bridge. The tailpiece height was designed to be adjusted for a reason. If you deck the tailpiece with the bridge set too high, a sharp string break angle will exert too much downward pressure over said bridge and cause it to cave in over time and then you will wonder why fret buzz exists on the middle strings only.

    I never top wrap a tailpiece with TOM bridge and see no reason to do so.

    Pictured below is a caved in bridge on a second hand SG that I purchased where the previous owner decked the tailpiece.

    [​IMG]

    I don't believe that decking a tailpiece increases sustain and a Wraparound bridge may be proof of that. Notice how similar a Wraparound bridge is to a tailpiece. A Wraparound bridge is a bridge and tailpiece all in one. Imagine how much fret buzz would occur if one were to deck a Wraparound bridge.

    A Wraparound bridge has to be raised to adjust the action, just like how a tailpiece may need to be raised if the the TOM bridge that accompanies it has to be raised to adjust the action. The Wraparound bridge on my Les Paul Junior DC is not decked and it sustains for days.

    [​IMG]

    Necks are set by hand and the angle may vary between each guitar. If you can’t wrap your head around that concept, then try a guitar with a Wraparound bridge.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  7. koaguilds

    koaguilds Well-Known Member

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    I agree with cerebral gasket. It also seems like some people think the tailpiece posts will bend if not completely tightened into the body. The pressure exerted by the strings will never bend those posts and if it did you could just buy a new set of posts.
     
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  8. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    Gibson bridges from the past have some issues,
    that's for sure. Bent posts and sagging bridges are
    something that I associate with the old ABR-1 style
    Gibson bridges, as well as rattly retaining wire and insufficient travel for
    intonation with light gauge strings.

    Possibly these things simply happen slowly over a
    guitar's career, and the old ones are sagging because
    they are just old. *like me... Maybe a new one would
    not be subject to this... improvements in metallurgy have
    been made over the last fifty years. Gibson still makes
    the ABR-1, and guys still buy them. Maybe they are made better now than they were in the 'Golden Age."

    I don't know if the much maligned "Harmonica" Bridge
    is subject to these problems, I've never owned one.
    I believe they have thicker posts than the ABR-1... they were designed to be an "improvement." *shrugs
    Guitarists generally were not impressed, even though the
    harmonica type works better.

    Modern Nashville bridges seem to have solved most of
    this trouble, but I don't know if they are still subject to
    sagging. That problem was already well known when the
    Nashville bridge was designed... I'd hope that the designers would have specified some stronger construction. Anybody got a sagging Nashville bridge?
    Shame on Gibson if we do.

    Nashville bridges have thicker posts, and the studs
    in the guitar top are much stronger as well, less likely
    to compress the wood and lean toward the neck.
    So to me, it's a superior design. I own one guitar with a stock Gibson Nashville bridge, and it works fine.
    I've read posts by players who claim the Nashville bridge sucks tone, but that's not my experience.

    And now we have aftermarket bridges made by Tone Pros and Pig Tail and Faber and Gotoh and a lot of others, so the guitarist has lots of (expensive) choices.
    I have put Tone Pros bridges on three guitars, and they work very well for me.
     
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  9. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I have had to replace both ABR-1 and Nashville collapsed bridges on several SG that I have purchased second hand in the past due to previous owners decking the tailpiece. The bridge I posted earlier is a Nashville and one can clearly see where it bowed. It doesn't only happen to ABR-1. This is not a quality control issue IMO and is a result of operator error by the end user.

    Pictured below are a Nashville and ABR-1 next to each other and then the Nashville by itself that was already collapsed that I wanted to test its tensile strength and finished it off by bending it by hand with pliers until it snapped.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  10. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly the highest quality piece of metal. That is a cheap and nasty casting. There must be somebody out there machining decent bridges.
     
  11. koaguilds

    koaguilds Well-Known Member

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  12. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    I like the finish, but who knows what lies inside? If they are a big manufacturer it is certain that they will also be casting. One of the clear problems is the amount of metal around the adjuster holes. It is too close for real strength. Castings have almost no strength under tension, and it's obvious that is exactly where the crack started. Raising the stop bar as far as you can without the strings climbing out of their bridge slots is the right way to deal with this defect. At least until someone designs a decent bridge with metal in the right places.
     
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  13. koaguilds

    koaguilds Well-Known Member

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    The Aluminum , steel, and brass Kluson USA models are all machined billets and not cast.
     
  14. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the bridge pictured below was made by Schaller? I found it on a 1998 Les Paul Special SL with humbuckers that I had in the past.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  15. brazilnut

    brazilnut Active Member

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    Both my SG IMG_8894.JPG s are decked and top wrapped. The break angle is a little shallower than the headstock angle, but not much. The action is softer, but that's the only difference I can detect. I just don't like cranking the tailpiece way up on the bass side to keep the strings off the back edge of the bridge.
     
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  16. brazilnut

    brazilnut Active Member

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    Could be a Faber, couldn't it? They source all over the place.
     
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  17. flognoth

    flognoth Active Member

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    It is likely a Schaller GTM type bridge, not a Faber. Faber's aren't open on the bottom.

    Here's an internet photo of a Schaller GTM
    schaller-gtm-chevalet-lp.jpg

    Here's an internet photo of a Faber ABRH
    offaqglzg40xwhsmityz.jpg

    Here's an internet photo of a Faber ABRN
    f0492106-343f-4e47-888f-0adf35d605ca-original.jpg
     
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  18. e-man

    e-man New Member

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    Just got my 2018 SG Faded last Wednesday. (Returned a 2019 Standard 61 the week before.) 20190706_085100.jpg
    This thread addresses a question I have so I wanted to submit for you all's consideration, the height of the bridge. The neck angle is such that I really have to raise the bridge high to get the action where it needs to be. Would anyone consider this TOO high? 20190706_085448.jpg I top wrapped the tailpiece to get the strings off of the back of the bridge. The bridge is a golden age roller (of course the ABR was just as high). 20190706_085501.jpg And of course if there are no pics it didn't happen right? 20190706_085520.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  19. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but you got a Friday afternoon special. This happens far too often to Gibson guitars. Personally I would send that back as I consider it unacceptable. That bridge will have no stability.
     
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  20. flognoth

    flognoth Active Member

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    That is way too high in my opinion. Top wrapping or not, the bridge shouldn't need to be that high to get the action correct.
     
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