NGD late 60s-1970? SG Special. Could use help dating.

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by Ecks57, May 2, 2017.

  1. Ecks57

    Ecks57 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    6
    [​IMG] first post! I actually got the SG almost a month ago but never got the chance to put up a NGD. So here we go...

    1970? Gibson SG Special it has a very mean growl to it even unplugged! it has the original bridge p90 and i just put a WB p90 in the neck (there was a p100 that was in the neck when i got it). The tuners have been changed, and the black refinish is very old and its aging nicely. The neck is small but round at the nut and starts to get bigger as you go up the neck kind of like half of a long thin funnel (ill try to capture this in some pics for below)
    I cant figure out if its a 70 or not though because of things it shares with some late60s models that ive never seen on a 1970 model. SN is 8999XX. Here is What it shares with 60s sg specials
    No dot on the "i" in Gibson
    Shape of the heel
    Neck shape
    No "Made in USA" on headstock
    one piece neck
    No volute.
    But It shares with 1970 sg specials,
    slightly smaller bevels
    and 70s pot code (on the one pot i can read and one pot looks totally newer).
    anyone have any ideas? whatever it is its a sweet guitar.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  2. Voxman

    Voxman Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    14,207
    Likes Received:
    545
    Location:
    LINY and Satillite Beach
    Pics can be hosted to photobucket or loaded to our "your" album in the media area, both ways can be linked to your posts
     
  3. Ecks57

    Ecks57 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    6
    everytime i add my images using photobucket the preview looks great and when i go to submit my post i get this message "Your content can not be submitted. This is likely because your content is spam-like or contains inappropriate elements. Please change your content or try again later. If you still have problems, please contact an administrator."
     
  4. Ecks57

    Ecks57 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    6
    awesome it works now thank you so much hopefully someone can shed some light on what year my SG might really be
     
  5. Voxman

    Voxman Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    14,207
    Likes Received:
    545
    Location:
    LINY and Satillite Beach
    Just check the pot codes, that'll be a good start, and since it doesn't have a " volute " at the back of the headstock , well, 70' comes to mind as soon after there were Volutes on 71's, thou, exact changeover dates always seem to overlap
     
  6. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,794
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Probably late '69 or early '70. I'm pretty sure volutes started growing on them throughout 1970.
     
    cerebral gasket likes this.
  7. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2,572
    Likes Received:
    3,288
    Welcome!

    Build was probably started late 1969 and completed early 1970.

    Very cool SG Special !
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  8. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    2,768
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    Here is the picture & Spec write up of the SG Special from the 1970 Gibson catalogs SG section.

    upload_2017-5-4_9-49-12.png

    upload_2017-5-4_9-36-44.png

    upload_2017-5-4_10-1-10.png

    upload_2017-5-4_10-2-18.png

    That old digital copy starts to run out of definition real quick when zooming in but it also looks like this headstock in the 1970 catalog has the noted '69 logo with the un-dotted 'i' also!

    My guess is that you got a 1969 or an early 1970 SG Special.

    Soon enough in 1970 things got a volute & a made in USA stamp underneath the serial number, so no later than '70.
     
  9. Voxman

    Voxman Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    14,207
    Likes Received:
    545
    Location:
    LINY and Satillite Beach
    I could be wrong, but I still gotta go with it being a 70 IMHO
     
  10. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    2,768
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    Sorry, I hit Post Reply by mistake before I was actually ready to post! Anywho..

    I'm in agreement that this probably is an early 1970 with the notorious '69 (so much for only '69 year) undotted 'i' headstock logo.

    In 1969, shortly before Norlin acquired Gibson from CMI (Chicago Musical Instruments), Gibson began to implement changes, including changing the headstock pitch from 17 degrees to 14, phasing in three-piece maple necks in lieu of one piece mahogany, and the addition of a volute to the neck. However, these changes were not consistent or in full affect across all model lines until about mid 1970. So, we end up getting transitional models more or less stuck in the middle of the two established designs!

    Here's a transitional 69-70 headstock logo displayed on LP Customs.

    Gibson LP Custom 69 vs 70 headstock logo Custom LP.JPG

    Here is my late 68 early 69 (pot code Nov 68) Headstock.

    69 headstock expsr adsjust.JPG

    And here is your headstock logo.

    ESG 69 70 logo exposure adjst (2).jpg

    Once again, the 1970 SG Special from the 1970 Gibson pamphlet.

    Gibson SG Special 70 p4 adjtd expsr.jpg

    FYI: it was interesting to find evidence of what looks like a digital edited headstock image upon zooming in on that Specials headstock! Here is a pic that shows the altered pixelation right in the middle of the tuners just below the logo & right above the truss cover. WTF huh?

    69 Gibson SG Special pixelation coverup on headstock.JPG

    I don't know, maybe I've been on the computer too long & now I'm seeing stuff?

    Before I go, I want to hit on the bevels a bit.
    First, the 1970 model SG Special from the Gibson catalog.

    70 SG Special catalog pic bevels.JPG

    Here's your guitar.

    70 SG Special Bevels (II).jpg
    And here'sa my late '68 early '69.

    68-69 horn bevels.jpg

    Very interesting stuff man. I wish I had better pictures to work with but I think we can see necessary things if we try to.

    I actually found a whole lot of interesting stuff to read over & even copy to my own personal files. This forgotten black sheep Norlin era of Gibson has a lot of hard to document facts & changes so when I come across it, it is like finding Gold! Norlin Gold! LOL

    Anyway, I believe everything so far backs up the assertion that this is an early to mid 1970 SG Special.

    Nice guitar Buddy!

    Please let me know if you ever need some quick cash for it. She can stay here in my little Gibby museum with her relatives to keep her company.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  11. Wildeman

    Wildeman Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    178
    Nice. I think i was checking that guitar out. Did you get it at Aantone's in Newark Ca.?
    If its the same one, its really nice and resonant.
     
  12. Ecks57

    Ecks57 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    6
    yep this is it! it is very very resonant
     
    Wildeman likes this.
  13. Ecks57

    Ecks57 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    6
    so the SN 8999xx doesnt really mean much on these things? lol
     
  14. syscokid

    syscokid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    2,282
    Location:
    Groovy Beach, CA
    Yes it does. It means the guitar is a 1968... :cheers:

    899000 - 899999 = 1968
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  15. Susihukkanen

    Susihukkanen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    855
    Location:
    Finland
    No it does not. I have a 899xxx serial number SG and it is definitely not a 68 but a late 69. The serial number is here the least reliable source of information.
     
    PermissionToLand likes this.
  16. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2,572
    Likes Received:
    3,288
    The serial number alone may not always determine the completed year of manufacture.

    The serial number stamping is not the last step in the manufacturing process.
    A headstock could be stamped with a range of serial numbers in December 1969.
    Final build could be completed in January 1970 with pots that have 1970 date codes.

    Pots are usually stamped with week and year of manufacture.
    If all four pots are same date code and original, would that not determine earliest year guitar build was completed?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
    syscokid likes this.
  17. syscokid

    syscokid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    2,282
    Location:
    Groovy Beach, CA
    Thanks... I was going strictly by the available database. Maybe @Ecks57 could post some detailed pics of the pots, showing their codes.
     
    cerebral gasket likes this.
  18. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3,741
    Likes Received:
    2,768
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    Even back in 1999's 6th edition Blue Book they knew the serial numbers from this era of production were FUCT.

    upload_2017-5-6_18-52-59.png

    upload_2017-5-6_18-52-3.png

    Unless a batch of older pots (with older dates) was found misplaced & then subsequently used! Hey, this has actually happened. Remember, date codes on usable pots meant absolutely nothing back then. It was simply a bunch of pots that were meant to be used.
     
  19. Tonerider

    Tonerider Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    100
    Very nice Gibson SG in a rare ebony finish .
     
  20. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2,572
    Likes Received:
    3,288
    Good call.

    Serial numbers and date codes only give ballpark estimate of when something was manufactured.

    I have read that pots are often stamped months before they are completed.
    There could be a surplus of old pots sitting on the supply shelf waiting to be used.

    I was suggesting that if all four pots were original and stamped some week of 1970 then that would be an indicator of the earliest year the guitar build was completed.

    OP mentioned the 1970 pot looked newer than the others.
    Maybe a mixed batch was used.
    Maybe one of the pots needed to be replaced after the guitar was shipped.

    I believe anything is possible.
     
    PermissionToLand likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice