SG Modern--I really tried to like it

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by Hanover Fiste, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. Hanover Fiste

    Hanover Fiste Member

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    I was intrigued by Gibson's new Modern line, so I purchased a 2019 SG Modern. The specs look good on paper (real ebony compound radius fretboard, asymmetrical neck, AA flamed maple top, real MOP inlays, humbucker/single coil switchable), but for me, it didn't work out.

    It looked good, played and sounded well, but the overall balance was horrible. Even with a wide suede strap, the neck still took a nosedive toward the floor. The locking Grover tuners certainly didn't help in that regard. Plus, they moved the front strap button to behind the upper horn--which made the dive even worse. It also made for an odd angle when holding the guitar: the top of the body was thrust forward, and it made the neck stick out at about a 45-degree angle. I had to stretch to reach the first few frets.

    I really wanted to like it, but it wasn't any better than the SG Supreme I already have, so back it went.

    111390036-angle-xlarge.jpg 111390036-backbody-xlarge.jpg 111390036-front-xlarge.jpg
     
  2. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Groving locking tuners are heavy (too much) and the position of the strap button is wrong.
     
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  3. Freddie

    Freddie New Member

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    Yes the 2018 Standard has the same tuners....way too heavy for an Sg...plus they made the bridge and stop piece lighter too.


    Freddie
     
  4. DanB

    DanB Active Member

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    too bad, because it is a beautiful looking guitar, i guess looks can be deceiving
     
  5. brazilnut

    brazilnut Active Member

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    I thought that repositioning the strap button like that would help to correct neck dive. Darn, I guess not! Sure is a beautiful thing though....
     
  6. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    I like the 2018 Next generation SG HP Mojava, the Cobalt blue is nice too.

    A set of lightweight KLUSON Revolution tuners and that' s perfect!


    Image temp 5625.jpg
     
  7. Huntroll

    Huntroll Active Member

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    Its a cruel world when you have to put up with the bad* to get the good.

    Case in point :

    My *HOT PINK - 2018 SG HP-II

    The bad is the name.

    So to me, mine is known as the "SCARLET HAZE" SG HP-2 .
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  8. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    If you own an SG Supreme, I suppose you could become hard to please.
    *grins

    But there's no excuse for Gibson allowing an unbalanced SG to leave the plant.
    I own two SGs, and they both balance perfectly. As they should.

    I also own a few extra sets of Gibson and Grover tuners, so I might have
    been tempted to simply screw a set of traditional tuners on, and see if getting rid
    of the heavy locking tuners made enough difference.

    I generally would never buy something unless I already knew I wanted it.
    And if I wanted it, I would figure out how to make it work. But when you pay
    a lot for a Gibson, you shouldn't have to monkey around to much to get it
    functional.
     
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  9. Hanover Fiste

    Hanover Fiste Member

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    Perhaps. But my Supreme has neck dive as well. My suede strap makes it barely noticeable. On the Modern, however, it was even worse. It should be noted, though, that the one I bought was a lightweight example-- it was under 7 pounds. A heavier Modern might not be as bad. I also think they should move the strap button to the tip of the upper horn, like how Epiphone does it on their Tony Iommi model SG.
     
  10. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    Not enough wood there IMHO... I don't know how Iommi does it, but his guitars
    are hand built by craftsmen he hires to make them.

    I don't know how Epiphone does it either.

    Neck dive can be cured by moving the rear strap button upwards. Much more secure, plenty of wood to sink a screw into.

    We've got thread after thread on the subject of neck dive, and lots of creative
    suggestions, but that's the most practical one IMHO.

    Neck dive can also be cured by installing traditional Kluson style tuners
    (such as Grover Vintage Keystones, or the Gotoh equivalent)
    on the SG headstock, removing the heavy locking tuners or the heavy Grover
    Rotomatics, or the heavy robot mechanism. NONE of those "improvements"
    belongs on an SG. The SG design is sensitive to added weight at the headstock,
    and responds with neck dive.

    Go back to the basics, and use the tuners that
    the guitar was designed to support, and restore the balance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
    Fumble fingers likes this.
  11. Hanover Fiste

    Hanover Fiste Member

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    1600-EGTIEBNH_detail4.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  12. GrumpyOldDBA

    GrumpyOldDBA Well-Known Member

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    All SGs will neck dive ... there is no way around it ...

    Can be reduced with a heavy leather strap to some extent.
     
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  13. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    naw
    Angus balance.jpg Angus no neckdive.jpg

    my SGs don't neck dive...
    And neither do Angus' SGs.
    Okay, we know that Angus employs a staff to maintain his
    guitars, and we know that Tony plays custom built SGs
    carefully made by world class luthiers.

    But my well balanced pair are simply humble SG specials
    made by regular factory Joes working for Gibson at Nashville.

    And if the OP paid a lot of money for a brand new instrument,
    it ought to balance IMHO.

    SG wisdom states:
    Play it before you buy it.
    That's how you know.


    I understand about the strap on the horn, but I still don't think there's
    enough wood there. Maybe the screw is 75mm long. Anyone who jumps
    around onstage would need something like a very long screw... Angus
    would wiggle that loose in a short time. Or split the mahogany. Tony
    doesn't jump around like Angus does... but I'll bet his are anchored firmly
    deep in the wood.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  14. HackeIommi

    HackeIommi Active Member

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    Hi. I have an Epi Iommi 2015. Strap button is not on the tip of the upper horn, on the back as every Epi SG. But no neck dive too. But I know by the reviews I read, some of them have a strap on the upper horn and very few 2015 Iommi models have neck dive issue too.

    Strap button on the upper horn is a good idea. But some horns can be weak and break. Its a shame, a good sounding and playing SG with a heavy neck dive issue.
     
  15. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    I don' t understand ....


    Image temp 5636.jpg
     
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  16. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    I'm no expert, but my basic knowledge of physics would suggest it could only improve neck dive. Having the button at the heel makes it prone to rotate around that spot. Having it away from the center of gravity makes it very difficult to rotate.

    I don't understand what you don't understand. What are you trying to show here?
     
  17. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    Strap button on the horn = more neck dive.
     
  18. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Moving the strap button to the back of the horn had nothing to do with curing neck dive - this is an understandable mistake that seems to keep coming up here. The move came with the use of the "Fast-access heel" which offered "unfettered access to the upper frets" - something we all know the SG desperately needed... :rolleyes:

    The move Gibson made to address neck dive only came with the 2018 model (so not the 2016 or 17 HPs), and that was the addition of a maple top. As Gibson put it: "A slightly thicker body provides for more precise weight offset and overall improved balance in the guitar". So if you end up buying an SG HP with a lighter-than-usual weight, you're negating Gibson's effort to reduce neck dive.

    FWIW, my experience of the relocated strap button on a '16 HP is that it has no noticeable effect on neck dive compared to my '14 Standard (both with G-Force tuners, weighing the same as Grover locking tuners - but other variables may also be at play here). It does effect how the guitar hangs on your body - whether it's better or not depends on your body shape, and how high or low you've got the guitar positioned - there's no definitive better or worse in this regard, so YMMV.

    (Incidentally, Gibson may have got the idea for the extra weight from their '16 SG Supreme, which had a maple top, Grover locking tuners, and a fast access heel + horn strap button - so a kind of test-bed for the 2018 HP. Mine does have less neck dive than either of my Standards, but still has plenty, thanks to those tuners).
     
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  19. Worblehat

    Worblehat Well-Known Member

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    My Epi Iommi from 2017 has the button on the tip of the horn. I can't tell if this helps against neck dive...I doubt it. Mine didn't have bad neck dive but enough neck heavyness that it bugged me. I replaced the tuners with extra light weight ones which helped a lot.
     
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  20. HackeIommi

    HackeIommi Active Member

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    Hi! You remind one thing. I had an Epi G400 a long time ago and had neck dive problem. To replace the strap button to the tip of the upper horn worked. Iommish magic or chance, IDK. But I think light tuners are a better idea. My solution is risky.

    Btw, do your Iommi have photos?
     

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