SIDEWAYS VIBROLA ISSUE's in 2019 'SG' STANDARD

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by Wild Bill212, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA
    Hello, I need to know if it is possible to improve the Tuning stability of a brand new 2019 'SG' STANDARD 3 Pick-Up w/Sideways Vibrola. I just got the Guitar and was told that the new improved Machined mechanism had straightened out the issue's this Tremolo was having way back in 1963, but apparently that is not so.The Guitar will not stay in tune. I have put Guitar Grease in the NUT, 'Self-Locked' the Strings and Greased the Saddles too.

    I bought this Guitar because I saw the 'Live @ Darryl's House' w/Billy Gibbons who played an 'SG' w/Sideways Vibrola that he took the cover off of and the Guitar, named 'Lil Red' is so completely BAD-A$$, I wanted one too. The one I have is actually just as BAD-A$$ as Billy G's as mine is a 'BLACK-BEAUTY' 3 Pick-Up Model w/GOLD HARDWARE.....I am to somehow either get the Guitar to stay in Tune with the Tremolo on it or take it off entirely, in which case I will just return it as I have 45 days to return the Guitar.

    Any help and or suggesttions will be greatly appreciated as I would like to keep this Guitar as the Guitar is as close to a Custom Shop or Signature Series Gibson a guy like me can get.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,574
    Likes Received:
    1,693
    You really have to make certain there is no string binding occurring in the nut slots. If the nut slot angle is not cut correctly to align with the strings or the slot width is too narrow for the string gauge used, no amount of grease is going to fix that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
    PermissionToLand likes this.
  3. GrumpyOldDBA

    GrumpyOldDBA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    272
    Location:
    Cleveland
    What strings are having problems? Often likely binding in the nut ... G? B?

    My 2018 SG standard had similar problem the recommended solution is going to a good luthier.

    A possible bypass is using a string butler to keep strings straight thru nut that worked on my 2018.
     
  4. Six Stringed Demon

    Six Stringed Demon Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2018
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Valley of the Sun
    I recently saw an adjustable nut I was going to pick up for my Bigsby if I couldn’t keep it in tune. These are really supposed to help the tremolo/vibrato issues.

    As you can see, the nut is cut with the angle of the strings in mind. They sell from Stew MAC.

    82D384FF-6C72-4D3A-ABCF-8CF20370CC74.jpeg
     
  5. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA

    Pretty much all of them. The NUT on the Guitar has String action at the 1ST Fret of 1/64TH on the High 'E' and just over 1/64TH on the HIGH 'E' which, according to GIBSON USA Spec should be 2/64TH's...so it looks like the NUT is improperly Cut, no surprise there as I've not got a properly cut NUT on a GIBSON out-of-the-factory in ages.

    I have heard there is some sort of KIT available to keep the Tremolo on the Guitar but to make it a solid ,non-functionong Tremolo..I am hoping someone will post it!
     
  6. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA

    I may need to look into this.THANK YOU...
     
  7. Daniel.S

    Daniel.S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    266
    If you don’t want to use the trem, just lock it so it acts as a solid tailpiece.
    Beautiful guitar though!
     
    Sp8ctre likes this.
  8. GrumpyOldDBA

    GrumpyOldDBA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    272
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Hmmm well check neck relief measurements guitar could have changed since factory. A little lefty loosey?

    But maybe you have checked all that already ... definitely worth looking at and double checking.
     
  9. Daniel.S

    Daniel.S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    266
    I think in order to lock it, you need to take the springs out and then use a few washes to lock it. I think. Never a guitar with a trem like that, so I'm just going by what I've seen.
    I probably would have bought one of these SG's if it came with just the standard two humbuckers.
     
  10. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA
    YES, I NEED TO FIND OUT HOW TO DO THAT. I also need to bring the guitar to a Gibson Svc Center and have the NUT shimmed, Bass side is too Definitely too LOW. Maybe get a Locking NUT? IDK if the Tail-Piece can be lowered, that needs to happen as well as the Break angle is nearly a straight line.

    I am hoping someone here will know hiw to LOCK/LOWER the Tail-Piece. The Tremolo is pretty useless, I mean you get a bend out of it, but its not a DIVEBOMBER....
     
  11. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA

    When I got the Guitar I checked all the measurements. Relief was .012" @ 7TH Fret via Notched-Straightedge, I closed it to .0045"-006" @ 7TH & 9TH Frets as I find GIBSON's play their Sharpest, Crisp best between .004"-006", and anything over .007" begins to feel MUSHY. I set the String Action @ 12TH fret 5/64TH's & 3.5/64TH's Low 'E' across to High 'E' and the problem stayed pretty much the same. Quadruple checked it, at least it seems stable, for the whole 48 hours its been in my possession, LOL !
     
  12. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA
    The Middle H-Bucker gets in the way of strumming but not too big a dealio. I set the Pick-up Height on the Neck & Bridge Position and then just picked a middle height that is half-way between what the Neck & Bridge P-Up's are set @. It was between this one and the the AGED CHERRY 2 H-Bucker MAESTRO (these Sideways trem's 3 H-Bucker's were selling for +$500 more in 2015 @ $2500....HHHMMMM.....). this one just looks more on the BAD-ASS Side of things...and I do not want to send it back, get the MAESTRO and have the same thing happen. I saw a Locking device on MOJO AXE dot com, but it is only for the original GIBSON's of the early 1960's.
     
  13. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA
    The Guitar sounds really good when it is in tune.This Guitar has no Neck-Dive, and it is BAD-A$$...I am hoping to get this straightened out. I would hate to send it back, this has got to be correctable.
     
    bwotw likes this.
  14. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,350
    Likes Received:
    1,627
    There are two forum members who own these SG3s, @Logan @58pit - they may be able to offer some advice.

    But right from the start, if you want to divebomb, you'll need a locking trem. It's really that simple. Sure, you may find someone who says they can divebomb this or that unit all day long with no issues, but you'll find a dozen more who say that simply doesn't work. AFAIK, Gibsons reissue of the old sideways vibrola did not fix the issues the original had with tuning stability, though they may well have reduced the issues somewhat (note how quickly the original design was dropped).

    FWIW, how stable is the tuning if you're not using the vibrola at all?
     
    PermissionToLand likes this.
  15. Daniel.S

    Daniel.S Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    266
    Relax man I know it can be stressful sorting out new guitars, but you don’t need a hard break angle created on the bridge with lowering the tail piece.
    My SG’s tailpiece is almost completely straight with the bridge and I’ve found doing this has given me more room to intonate.
    Have you worked out how to take the cover off the trem?
     
  16. bwotw

    bwotw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2012
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    1,037
    I really hope you get this sorted, it's certainly a beautiful guitar! Does it get out of tune without using the trem too?

    For what is worth, I have an SG with the Maestro trem and, once the nut and saddles are lubbed, it hardly goes out of tune. Can even divebomb it somewhat.
     
    PermissionToLand likes this.
  17. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2017
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    269
    Stretch your strings and keep stretching until your guitar stays in tune. This also vexed me with Bigsby and Floyd Rose until I learned this.

    I have a stretching tool I posted about here, look for it. I was made fun of for it but it does what’s necessary.

    Tom
     
    PermissionToLand likes this.
  18. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA

    Well, its not as bad as when I use the Vibrola but its still not good enough. I haven't got through a single song where I checked the tuning afterward and it was not off by a few lines on the Digital Tuner. The Locking Tremolo idea that I have heard should work, I m hoping so as this Guitar is just BEAUTIFUL, it is the one I was waiting for GIBSON USA to make, u kno?

    A Guy like me, that is not rich but not poor either, gets to a point in life where you want that certain thing you could never have afforded when you were a Kid. This is one of those type things, and I still can not spring for a CUSTOM SHOP or SIGNATURE SERIES GIBSON. An ES-335 Traditional is about where I top out at. BUT, I can get a STANDARD that is not an everyday dime a dozen type STANDARD....and this is that Guitar.
     
  19. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA

    YES, Trem cover is only three screws, comes right off. I sent a picture of what is underneath to the Guy that is working on a Fix. The STOP-BLOCK the Man wants to bring to market will lock the tremolo arm in place and make it like a regular Stop-Tail, which is OK by me. I want to keep this Guitar, Its got that '....but my HEAD's in MISSISSIPPI.....' feel to it and it is completely BAD-A$$. But it has just got to stay reasonably in tune.
     
  20. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    N E USA/S E ASIA

    I was going to get the 'MAESTRO' instead but it was 'AGED CHERRY' and this is a just a little more BAD-A$$ loooking w/BLACK-BEAUTY' Gold Hard-Ware thing goin on, yes? If this one goes back, and it is going back if I do not get a fix for it....I'll go for the 'MAESTRO', thanks I am glad to hear that your OK with the 'MAESTRO'.
     
    bwotw likes this.

Share This Page


Recommended Links: PAF Pickups, Luthier Forum