So there are no legit SG kits? Reshape and Refinish a Faded?

Discussion in 'SG Copies' started by Clay, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. Clay

    Clay New Member

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    So it looks like PGK has had to change their SG kit's body shape due to gibson being a bunch of assholes that dont really even make good guitars unless you spend extreme amounts of money.

    I was thinking I could refinish some sort of lesser priced SG- but then I'd be stuck without binding on most options- as the faded and satin ones would be super easy to refinish.

    questions
    A) are there any lower priced SG's with fretboard binding?

    B.) has anyone tried to reshape the flatter SG bodies to a more historic more contoured bevels? Probably wouldnt be too difficult. just time consuming. I'm sure you could actually get some blueprints and draw and measure- it seems gibson doesnt even know their exact science to it.

    anyone have any experience with this?
     
  2. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Used Standards can be had pretty cheap. And there's a guy who sells stripped bodies on Ebay; you could watch out there for something that fits your needs.
     
  3. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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  4. plankton

    plankton Well-Known Member

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  5. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    Gibson bashing isn't a very good way to introduce yourself to
    this community, but welcome to ETSG anyway. Maybe you'll learn
    something here.

    If you want Gibson quality, buy a Gibson. There are literally thousands of them out there for sale, and at high prices and at low prices. If you listen to Gibson bashers, and actually believe what they say, (bad idea)
    then don't spend your money on a Gibson style
    guitar. Get something else that you like better. There are lots of options. So many that it seems really dumb to me to complain about
    Gibson. Just get something else and play music.

    If you think binding is important (which it is not) but don't want to
    pay Gibson prices and support U.S. workers, then get an Epiphone.
    I have two Epiphone guitars, both have 'Fret over" binding, both are
    quite well made, and both have been modified by me into real players.
    Epiphone SG models are quite good right out of the box. Do a few judicious mods (hardware) and get them professionally set up and you'll have an instrument that can take its place alongside the best.

    I know this because I've done it.

    If you want to build an SG style guitar, the above links are some
    good ideas. Here's another one:

    http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/BodyBuilder.aspx?style=10

    Warmoth "SG style" guitars cannot be called SGs... BUT...
    Warmoth makes very high quality components for musicians who want
    to build their own custom instrument, with everything exactly what they want. Cork sniffers will turn up their plugged noses at these
    because they have a bolt-on neck. But anyone who owns or plays a
    Fender guitar knows that there is absolutely no reason to reject a
    bolt on neck. No tonal reasons, no aesthetic reasons, no reasons.

    Bolt on necks have NO PROBLEMS... they work fine and if you want
    to build a high quality custom guitar, they make it do-able. So the
    Warmoth design is very practical, and can be turned into your dream
    guitar. ...uh, it is expensive even so. The money you pay goes for fine wood &
    high quality parts, made carefully and expertly just so. I've done this too.

    Cheaper to buy a used Gibson, which is what i would recommend.
    I built my dream bass out of Warmoth parts, and can highly recommend the company. It's got a bolt on neck, but so what?
    *grins ...I built my dream bass about eight years ago, and it's given
    great service ever since.

    Good luck in your quest, and welcome again to ETSG.
     
  6. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    re-reading your original post, I see that I didn't really
    answer your questions. Sorry about the rant.

    Question 1: Lower priced SGs have no binding, because it costs the factory more in worker time to execute binding (and Nibs) or fret-over
    binding. So they put binding on guitars that cost more to the buyer.

    I suggested Chi-Com Epiphone guitars above, because they pay their
    workers diddly-squat, and can offer instruments with binding for small
    money... to the world. Like this one...
    Caledonia close@100.jpg
    I really like this guitar. And I've replaced all the Chinese hardware
    and had it professionally set up. I paid about 1/8 the price of the similar Gibson model, and after some additional expense and labor
    I have something better. For me, that's a win.

    Question 2: I don't think that anyone around here has taken a file or
    a rasp to their treasured Gibson, trying to make it something that it's not. Think about the fact that old Gibsons were made by guys with a
    band saw, and then the bevels were made by guys with a file or a rasp.

    Modern Gibsons are made using computer controlled cutting machines
    but then guys with files and rasps will turn the robot output into something like a musical instrument.
    Taking a file or a rasp to a fine instrument, trying to make it into
    something that it's not... that's not a very good idea. There is no
    tonal advantage to this bevel or that. You take a chance that you'll
    turn a fine instrument into a mess. Very few of us would do that.

    If you want to play music, I suggest you get a fine Gibson and just
    play it. Ignore ALL Gibson bashers. Gibson guitars make excellent
    music, and have for a hundred years and more.

    If you want to be a luthier, I suggest you take some classes at a community college or luthier school, where you can learn how to make fine instruments. It's a very worthwhile craft.
     
  7. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    And yet it has become the norm, lately.:io:.
     
  8. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    First let me be clear; I don't consider myself a Gibson basher. I've bought 5 new Gibsons in the last 4 years, along with 2 used ones. I really don't think I'd have done that if I were a 'Gibson basher'.

    Secondly, if you happen to love the SG, as I have since c.1975, then there are not lots of options. Pretty much just Gibson or their Epiphone subsidiary - as this thread demonstrates.

    To turn it around, if you buy a Gibson, then you'll get Gibson quality. I just did. Last week. A brand new SG that was the top-of-the-range for Gibson USA in 2016, though thankfully, as it's no longer 2016 it was now no more expensive than the 2018 SG Standard HP (which is still not cheap). At it's core, it is a quality instrument, with quality Gibson design, and fine quality materials, but what do you get when you spend your money 'supporting American workers'?
    A truss rod cover that's been screwed in place crooked. A simple enough task, given the skills required to construct a guitar, and hard to get wrong, unless you're not paying attention.
    Glue spillage on the Richlite fingerboard. I'm not sure how many guitars I've bought with bound fingerboards, but this was a first for me. Not on a Japanese guitar, nor a Korean or Indonesian one. Not even on either of the two Chinese-made guitars I've owned, but on an expensive American made Gibson.
    Fancy chrome control knobs that are either badly pitted, or have been damaged in handling. Either way, it would be hard not to notice the flaws when fitting them (or in QC), as the damage runs right around both of them. Yet it left the factory like this.
    A ring of light pinkish (unfinished) material around one Stop bar post, highly visible due to it's contrast with the surrounding blue finish. The jury is still out on what this is, or why it's there, but I've not seen anything like it on any instrument I've owned.

    Sadly, it took several days of e-mail exchanges before Gibson Europe agreed to pay for remedial work, though to be fair, they offered to pay for it to be returned straight away - I guess they're just used to people wanting their money back, rather than getting their new guitar repaired.

    Am I bashing Gibson? You may well think so. But this is simply the condition a top-of-the-range SG arrived in, so does this represent 'Gibson quality'? Well, the dealer said they looked for an exchange item, and found issues on the instruments they looked at, so perhaps it does. Of the 5 Gibsons I've recently bought new, only one was truly 'flawless'. (But, to be completely fair, I did compare it with another. They were both superb players, so I inspected them carefully for visible flaws to help me chose one. Couldn't find any. That quite surprised me, given past experience - but I mention it as I'm not simply posting to 'bash' Gibson).

    By contrast, I bought two South Korean-made Reverends early this year. One had a tiny flaw in the body binding near the strap button (how I noticed it). That's it... Both had bound ebony boards, bound bodies, one a bound headstock, gloss finishes, set necks, etc., so perfectly good comparisons in terms of build complexity.

    I doubt South Korean workers are paid a pittance, but whatever they are paid, they certainly seem to take pride in their work, and do it with sufficient competence to produce consistently high quality instruments. No doubt why brands like PRS go there to produce their lower budget lines. I honestly wish I could say the same about Gibson's workforce, I'd be delighted to see them live up to the reputation you give them. Sadly, right now, I don't believe they do.
     
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  9. vonserke

    vonserke Active Member

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    A) The last few years I went the MIJ route and never looked back, all my LPs and SGs are Japan made. Fretboard binding, lond tennon, proper shape and bevels, great quality and half the price!

    B) I think it's not just time consuming. You need some skills and tools (and confidence) to do it right! But you can find a good luthier to do it for you!

    I am a Gibson basher for many reasons! One of them is that they make their USA models look like G-400s, so that they can sell reissues 'blah blah' custom shops 'blah blah' special runs etc for thousands more! Nobody would buy a reissue, if a standard model had a proper shape and bevels, deeper beveled pickguard etc!
     
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  10. sazista

    sazista Active Member

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    I think you can find a kit if you keep looking. There are members who have them. personally i agree and/ disagree with some perspectives from comments above. But you really need to find out WHY you want a particular guitar. Lets face it, looks do matter in most relationships, even with our instruments, so i wouldn't say "poppycock" to that. Find something that allows you to comfortably make your music (price, feel, appearance, output, etc). My bolt on neck Indonesian made Epi 310 has a much cleaner, precision made look and feel compared to my 2002 Gibson Faded. Neither have neck binding, though the slightly wider 310 neck (thin as butter front to back) has the painted on black line where neck binding would be, and it is smooth and non sticky. A much faster neck than the Gibson. So.. do your hands in homework and play as many as possible. If you just can't be musically creative without neck binding then maybe a counselor can help ( this forum's members are here for that and you won't need Frump's failed healthcare plan to pay for it)! let us know what you find out. There may be members in the forum in your city and you can check out their models as a reference.
     
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  11. Clifdawg

    Clifdawg Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't get why people continue to accuse Gibson of selling their guitars at exhorbitant prices as compared to other makes. A new Gibson can often be had for hundreds less than an entry-level USA-made Fender, or a thousand less than a (proper) USA-made PRS.

    For the record, at the time I purchased my '16 SG special T, there were a couple of Epiphone SG models that were actually more.

    As to the quality of Gibson's, I've never run into any, besides maybe the occasional QC overlook. I've played many Epis, and they've all ranged from bad to very good. I've played plenty of Gibson's too, and they've ranged from mediocre to excellent. Half the time, it's the shop carrying them - the worst Gibson's I've played have hung in a Guitar Center. The best ones have hung in my local mom and pop store... That tells me it's probably the quality of setup and handling more than the guitar in question.

    Sorry, rant over. Serious question: if you want a high-end Gibson, why don't you just be patient and wait for an inexpensive one to show up on your local Craigslist or whatever? If you want a real, bound-fretboard SG, nothing else will do. Alternatively, you could look at something like the Epiphone Tommy Iommi SG for around 800 bucks that will get you all the features you want, including Gibson hardware and electronics and a bound fretboard. That will get you 95% of the way there, if you like the cross inlays.

    If you really have to have the Gibson logo, you could always get a good Epi and make some modifications to the headstock. I can't promise you I won't roll my eyes at you for doing so, but that's your guitar, not mine.

    As for beveling and cuts and such, I can't help you much there... If it's such a big deal to you that you want the same beveling as a '62 SG right down to the micron, I doubt you'll be happy with anything other than an actual, preserved '62 SG.
     
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  12. koaguilds

    koaguilds Well-Known Member

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    Proper shape and bevels...good grief people have become hung up on this like a virus in the past 10 years. There are no 'proper bevels and shapes'. Maybe to you...have you been deemed the SG properness authoritay?? This was never even discussed or thought of much a couple or more decades ago. Whether you had a a long neck joint slab or over-chiseled short neck joint SG you ultimately had an SG and just played the damn thing. I told you all Les Paul-ish cork sniffing has entered our beloved SG realm and it's very evident.
     
  13. SG FIRST TIMER

    SG FIRST TIMER Active Member

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    Yeah what Koa said. If Les hadn't gone to work for Gibson you'd hear the corks popping on the Epiphone threads :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  14. S.Ustain

    S.Ustain Member

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    Tenon length can make a difference, particularly in a guitar with a minimal and weak neck joint, like the SG, but fit is more important. I've had long tenon SGs that pitch-shift when you press on the whippy neck, and others that are rock-solid. People can disregard build features if they want -- fine -- but to say they don't make any difference is just bizarre. You don't need to obsess over this stuff as many do, but it's not meaningless, either. That being said, most Gibson SGs, at every price point, are pretty well made, in my experience. Some of the "historically correct" features that people fight about seem nonsensical to me. I have a nice vintage SG with bevels that look like someone executed them in 5 min. freehand on a belt sander -- and they probably did. They're not nearly as smoothy contoured as they could be. But they're old and correct. Does that make them good, when they're not? Maybe they sound better!
     
  15. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Reshape and Refinish a Faded?

    Why mess up a perfectly good SG Special Faded?

    The satin finish and chunky necks on the older ones are what make them so perfect to play, and some of the early ones have ebony boards. It doesn't get any more legit than that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  16. Roca

    Roca Active Member

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    I got a 66 epiphone reissue built in 2016 without binding. When did they not do it on top end sg's ? I actually like it without. I will do some fretwork later on down the line to save my fingers from all the cuts. Lol
     
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  17. plankton

    plankton Well-Known Member

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    My '66 G400 Pro has rosewood binding, so no exposed fret ends. Did yours come without the binding and rough fretwork?
     
  18. Plan Zero

    Plan Zero Active Member

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    Cheap guitars can have binding but usually it's black. I believe this is to cut the cost of the fretboard wood. I see no other reason why I have basically invisible binding. My maestro Jr in my avatar has black binding which you can only see up close. So the whole theory of higher price for binding goes out the window. It's also fret over. However the body on a maestro is basswood so you'd probably be disappointed after stripping.
     
  19. Roca

    Roca Active Member

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    No binding. Some slight overhang on the frets.
     
  20. Roca

    Roca Active Member

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    20180224_142709.jpg
     

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