The term Vintage

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by Norlin SG, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Norlin SG

    Norlin SG Well-Known Member

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    What kills me is the misuse of the term vintage. If you have a 1955 Chev, it is a 1955 vintage car, might be an antique, IDK. My 2006 VW is a 2006 vintage car many years from being an antique. Vintage does not describe how far past new something is, it is only a snapshot in time when something is made.

    If anyone wants to bat this around go ahead and post. The term Vintage can be describe by vintage wine. If a wine is from say 1998, then it is a 1998 vintage.
     
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  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    1. A season's yield of grapes or wine
    2. Period of origin or manufacture

    We have a forum called Vintage SG (SG's from 1960-1969)
    Which vintage? The years in parenthesis.
    Maybe it needs to be renamed to 1960's vintage SG.

    Where is the 1970's vintage SG forum?
    The SG's with the harmonica bridge and small block inlays.
    Those were made in the 1970's.
    What do we call those SG?
    1970's vintage SG.

    A 2006 VW is a 2006 vintage car.
    A 1970's SG is a 1970's vintage guitar.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
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  3. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, it's not always possible to pin down a word with such precision. A car dealer would be unlikely to describe a brand new car as being 'a 2016 vintage model' in January 2017. Apart from sounding inappropriate, it would probably not increase his chance of making a sale. In such a situation the word 'vintage' is redundant, it's simply a '2016 model'. In fact, in historic car terminology, I believe a veteran car is one that's pre-WWI, and vintage is one built before 1930, after which it becomes quite muddled with phrases such as post-vintage, and classic (at least, it was like this, perhaps it's been updated...). According to this tradition, a car cannot be a 2006 vintage model!

    Sure, wine producers use the word 'vintage' pretty much as a synonym for 'year', but right now I can't think of another industry that does this, (though there may be many!). In common usage, vintage mostly seems to fit with Cerebral Gasket's point [2], but generally to also imply a degree of age, and that seems to be the case in terms of guitars. It's use often seems to seek a degree of significance or value to the date, hence we see it applied to guitars from the 50's to 70's, perhaps 80's but less so the 90s onwards. After that it can come across as a bit pretentious, IMHO.
     
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  4. Norlin SG

    Norlin SG Well-Known Member

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    Wine producers use the tum correctly. Seriously, there is so much nonsense about how old something is.

    Instead of being all rapped up in how old something is for resale value, folk should just play their guitar. If we make guitars unattractive to collectors, their true market value will come through and those scumbab collectors will move on and collect something else.

    I destroyed the collectabilaty of my SG by having it refreted in a way that is different then what the factory does. If it keeps it out of the hands of a scumbag collector, that's fine by me.

    It just boggles my mind that someone would collect say 200 guitars so that they would be stored away and never played.
     
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  5. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    "The term Vintage"... is often overused by people who need to feel special.

    Reissues aren't vintage.
     
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  6. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    "a scumbag collector"
    Agree with everything except the pejorative. Just because you may not be able to buy a guitar because of its appraised value doesn't make the owners of such instruments "scumbag collectors." You may feel better libeling conservators of rare and significant instruments, but that is no better than them looking at a heavily modded guitar and calling you a "vandal."
     
  7. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I hope my interpretation of the term "vintage" did not come across as pretentious.
    Was trying to use your analogy with automobiles.

    I own a 1963 SG Special and a 2003 SG Special Faded.
    The 2003 plays better.
    They had 40 years to get it right.
    Just because something is old does not mean it is of better quality.
    I still appreciate the 1963 because it is a piece of history.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  8. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    I can go with that.
     
  9. jjudas

    jjudas Well-Known Member

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    From reverb.com vintage guitar FAQ

    "What is a vintage guitar?
    While an antique is defined as an object over 100 years old, there's no strict chronological definition of what makes something vintage. Typically, though, guitars around 30 years old or older fall into that category, and even newer instruments will often be labeled as such by sellers. In the wine world, vintage can refer to anything of a certain quality, and there are some who take the same perspective with guitars. On Reverb, we usually consider anything made prior to 1980 as being vintage."
     
  10. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    I'd accept that.
     
  11. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious as to what prompted this discussion.
    Did someone have a 70's SG that was denied as being "vintage" in that forum?

    If so I would not worry about it.
    Does not matter to me how old or new a guitar is.
    How it plays and sounds is what matters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  12. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't sound like our group of folks.

    Fair enough.

    I do like a survivor however, and period-modded* axes have a special appeal as well.



    * meaning actually modded at the time, not just made to look that way
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
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  13. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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  14. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I agree that everyone here seems to respect each other's point of view on topics discussed.
    Have seen some quarrels between a few members here but they seem to get things sorted out.
     
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  15. Norlin SG

    Norlin SG Well-Known Member

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    Ah' no. I'm just of the opinion that the term "vintage" is not used correctly. But I suppose that English being a living language definitions of words change over time.

    Using the definition for vintage that I have read here, my 39 YO SG would qualify as vintage. In fact everything made in the Norlin era qualifies as vintage. If there is an issue (there isn't) It would be some peoples loath and misunderstanding for the Norlin era.

    Maybe the term "scum bag" is a little harsh. My apologies. I thing the term "guitar hoarder" would be more appropriate than the term "guitar collector".

    Just boggles the mind. But to each there own so I guess if you are not pushing up daises, you can do whatever you want if your not hurting anyone.

    Check this out.

    https://gemr.com/blog/the-5-supposedly-largest-guitar-collections/
     
  16. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, for me the best bit was at the end: "So there you have it; if the man who owns over 3000 guitars can make them all sound the same, then perhaps you’re better off with only two or three guitars that have distinguishable sounds."

    What surprised me is that several of these collections only numbered around 200 - 300. I once sold a guitar to a guy with over 200 guitars. It was an SG about 2 years old, and he paid me £250 more than I'd paid, so I can't complain about collectors... :)

    I guess the difference between a collector & a hoarder is that a collector can sell off surplus, but a hoarder can't let go of anything. So far this year I've sold 2 guitars & bought 3, I guess that makes me a collector, not a hoarder.... (and anyway, I'm still in single figures - just!).
     
  17. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    I beg to differ on that. I am of better quality.
    Gna ...
     
  18. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    Next he'll be telling us that AMF era Harley's are awesome...


    Kidding!

    I don't know, someone that would judge you for something you did to your axe to make it more enjoyable and therefore better for you seems pretty scummy to me.
     
  19. Dickey001

    Dickey001 Member

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    Check out "musical instruments" in Craig's, and you see so much misuse of the word "vintage" as meaning old. Every other ad is for something "vintage".
     
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  20. dexspeed

    dexspeed Active Member

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    Vintage is a bit of an ambiguous term. The wine vintage conundrum clearly demonstrates that.... Perhaps people should look more towards terms which seem to have a bit more of a solid definition with specifically stated numbers like Classic and Antique.

    I tend to defer to car clubs for these definitions which usually state that a Classic is 25 years + and an Antique would be anything 50 years +. This does not date stamp the definition to a specific era in history. After all, as years continue to progress and guitars age, one would think that eventually they should hit a state of some sort of notoriety (who doesn't like a milestone birthday!.......probably everyone......).
     

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