Tough choice to make ...

Discussion in 'Epiphone SG' started by DrBGood, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    I have those beautiful Epiphone Vintage G400. Bottom brown is a 2003 (6.6 lbs / 3kg), middle darker brown a 2005 (6.4 lbs / 2.9kg) and cherry a 2004 (6.4 lbs / 2.9kg).

    IMGP1130_tonemapped.jpg
    I don't need three of them and one will eventually have to go. I just finished the setup on the last one (2003 light brown) and oh boy ... they all play and sound great.

    The cherry is staying. I wouldn't get much for it, since the heastock was repaired. And it's a Cherry ... eh. It has Probuckers and it is everything a SG should be. Tuners were changed.

    The other two are very close contenders.

    2005 has a better looking, more aggressive grain pattern. Horns are sharper, more chisel like and it has deeper bevels.

    The 2003 almost seem like a one piece body, but it's not. Neck is a fraction thicker, which I like.

    I think I know which of the two brown I'll keep, but not sure yet. I'll sleep on it a few more days.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
    Lunacy the Faded and Girl_Rock like this.
  2. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    113
    Why do you want to sell one? I think that trio rappresent a part of you and your life and I'm quite sure you've spent lots of time and adventures together, don't you? That's a tough choice also for this reason. Maybe it is only my view on it, in the world we are a lot and we are all different. I don't like selling guitars, because if I spend some months with them, I will know them better, they will be a sort of friends, I always learn something new every day, important or not. Experience is something really significant for me, that's because I've not sell my Gib yet, the used one I posted some photos months ago. It has problems of tuning, I brought it to the luthier, he fixed it, but three or four months later it started to have those problems again, now I'm taking care of it. You said you have repaired and modified yours, that's a good bond.
    Are you sure you will sell them for the real price they are worth (for you)?

    Maybe I'm just losing my time writing this because I have only three guitars and I love them all... but it's what I think.
     
    Lunacy the Faded and Worblehat like this.
  3. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    Thanks for your comment Girl_Rock.

    See, the Cherry one I have had for some years (4) and it's not going anywhere. The other two were recently acquired, because I was curious as to see if they could be better in any way. The 2005 (darker one) I got first (4 months ago) and loved it at first sight. Then the other, the 2003, came on the market and its different age got me curious, so I got it (a week ago). So they haven't been in the family for long.

    The two recent brown ones are very similar in the way they play and I need to decide if I need two guitar pretty much identical. The playing factor will decide which stays and which goes. I thought in my initial post that the 2003 had a thicker neck, by feel, but by measuring circumfence instead of thickness, I realize it's the 2005 that has more girth, which I want. But it's very minimal, barely noticeable.

    Although they both have Classic '57 & HOTCH in them, they sound very different. Probably due to a different pickup manufacturer. So for now, I think I'll transfer the 2003 better pups to the better looking, fatter neck 2005. The 2003 will probably sell better with that iconic truss rod cover.

    19-09-13 headstock.jpg
     
    Lunacy the Faded and Girl_Rock like this.
  4. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    733
    The middle Brown one is better imo, other lok a bit like toys, my favorite is N° 2.

    Made in Japan SG are awesome, serious guitars and vvvvery close to the real Gibson ,


    [​IMG]
     
  5. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    Disclaimer: I DO NOT BELIEVE IN TONEWOOD.

    I've been playing them both plugged in, back to back and they sound radically different. Pickup heights are identical. Strings are a few hours older on the one that sounds darker, muddier. Funny that it is also the darker looking one. But that can't be it.

    They both have the same Classic '57 & HOTCH pups. But they could have been built by two different suppliers, there being 2 years between them.

    So, I figured I will switch pickups from one to the next and keep the better looking one with the better pickups. Then, it dawned on me to play them ... unplugged. Man ... same difference as when plugged in, really ! OK ... let's try something ...


    And yes, the one on the right is the clear and bright sounding one.

    Gawd ... do I take the trouble of switching pups to check if my ears are hearing what I think they are ?
     
    Lunacy the Faded likes this.
  6. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    3,365
    Perhaps you could keep all three and set each one up for alternate tunings. Maybe the brighter sounding one gets tuned down a half step.

    You could also put a P-94 in the neck position of one them to mix things up.

    But I do understand wanting to eliminate unnecessary duplicate guitars and keep things simple.
     
    DrBGood likes this.
  7. PixMix

    PixMix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    331
    Tough choice indeed, and they look different enough to justify keeping all three of them. Judging by the looks (that's all we have through screens), it would be a tough call to make, all three look beautiful.
     
    DrBGood likes this.
  8. dub-setter

    dub-setter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    269
    Location:
    berlin
    all three are beauties...

    but to decide bewteen the faded ones, i would go for the one that sounds better /resonate
    if played clean....(dry/without amp)
     
    DrBGood likes this.
  9. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    Ah ... so much for tonewood. I knocked on the Cherry and it sounds really dull, worst than the dark brown one. But it's the one that sounds clearest with or without an amp.

    So, I'll exchange the bridge HOTCH from one brown to the next and see what happens.
     
    Lunacy the Faded likes this.
  10. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    11,016
    Likes Received:
    9,174
    Location:
    -
    This kind of choice is like deciding which child to leave at the orphanage. I chose to keep my '03 cherry and send a brown '03 down the road a few years ago. I still wonder if I made the right choice.
     
    DrBGood likes this.
  11. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    Haha right.

    I'll go see a luthier I know, to get a second unbiased opinion on which one he thinks I should keep.
     
  12. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    Well ... maybe my ears are tired but my favor keeps jumping from one to the other.

    I switched the HOTCH bridge pups and ... they kind of still sound the same. So ... I'll be damned, but tonewood seem to be a thing in these SG. I spent close to an hour going from the Cherry with Probuckers, to the light brown, to the dark one. I'm getting dizzy and I'm now thinking that maybe I like the dark tone. The light one might be too similar to the Cherry tonewise.

    Yes the Classics still sound muddy in the dark one, but I like it's dark tone and I can always EQ the amp brighter if I want to. The neck pup is kind of useless, but I just won't use it on this one. It's different from anything I have. Or maybe I'll get a set of Probuckers to help definition, but I'm pretty sure it'll stay dark anyway.

    No I'm not going for expensive Duncans or others, no reason to go there when all I do is home noodling.

    Still pondering ...

    Oh yeah, haven't seen the luthier yet, but I might not need to.
     
  13. PixMix

    PixMix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    331
    Do they all stay in tune equally well? Not that it's a big deal fine-tuning before play, but there's some satisfaction that comes from picking up a guitar after two days of it sitting on the stand, and being spot on on the first strum.
     
  14. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    As much as any other I'd say.
     
  15. HackeIommi

    HackeIommi Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    148
    If I were in Canada, I would gladly deceiv... EHM help you :D

    As far as I can see, all of them are playing comfortably. All I can say is, keep most guitars sounding clear with clean & od with good sustain to your ears.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  16. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    That's where I'm at now. The dark one being the better looker will sell better and it's not the better souding. I switched innards from one to the other, no change in tone. It's the damned wood ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  17. dub-setter

    dub-setter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    269
    Location:
    berlin
    ...:D
     
  18. jvin248

    jvin248 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    177
    .

    Swap the pickups and the controls then just the controls and see 'where the tone follows'.

    The option is the darker/muddy one just get a higher (measured) kohm volume pot(s) and 0.033uF tone caps and that will push it better. Pots have a 20% tolerance range and it matters just like swapping nominal 250k vs 500k volume pots does.

    There was a period of MIK SGs and LPs that were all getting 0.033uF tone caps and that seems to be the reason those guitars sound so much better. It made a great improvement on my MIC SG G400 as well as other guitars.

    .
     
  19. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,970
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    I think have some 0.033. I'll try one.
    What if I disconnect the tone pot ?
     
  20. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    3,365
    If you disconnect the tone pot, the guitar will sound a tiny bit brighter. A tone pot still applies a load when it is set to "10". You can get no-load tone pots. When a no-load tone pot is turned one click past "10" it is completely bypassed.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice