Vintage G-400 MIK Intonation

Discussion in 'Epiphone SG' started by seedlings, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. seedlings

    seedlings Member

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    I've changed a lot of electronics on guitars, but haven't had to mess with replacing a bridge yet. It's not a big deal, but I have a couple of questions:

    This G-400 can't properly intonate because several saddles are at the end of their travel. The common refrain is, "replace the bridge with an Gotoh (or TonePros, etc.)." I have no doubt it will help performance. But, specifically, I want to be sure to get a bridge with more travel for the saddles. I like the look of a Harmonica bridge, and I like the idea of a roller bridge, but I really want one with more travel... if it can be a harmonica or roller, then all the better. Drop-in would be necessary.

    [​IMG]

    Open to suggestions, so thank you!

    CHAD
     
  2. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that is a lot of variation across the bridge. Contrast that with my G4oo

    [​IMG]

    I deliberately turned a couple of saddles round to equalise the forces front and back, but I really need not have bothered.

    The only pertinent question I can ask is how high is your action?
     

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  3. JohnnyGoo

    JohnnyGoo Well-Known Member

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    Go with the tonepros.nashville style.only get the metric version.it has the bigger stud holes.and at least the saddles are turned the right way.drives me nuts when i see backwards saddles.and ive seen alot of factory guitars like that.guess it dont matter but still:wow:
     
  4. JohnnyGoo

    JohnnyGoo Well-Known Member

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    Oh ya,the Tonepros Nashville metric bridge is a drope in replacement.i put one on a ESP i have and worked great.check out ebay.lots on there and it will say if its for the metric Epi or Standard Gibson bridge
     
  5. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    What's a backwards saddle? They do exactly the same job whichever way they face, but reach the end-stops better if they face the appropriate way.
     
  6. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    I've just taken a look at the tonepros bridge, and it looks like the intonation range is, if anything, less than the standard bridge. It won't fix this problem.
     
  7. JohnnyGoo

    JohnnyGoo Well-Known Member

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    Might want to check ur neck relief to and make sure its exceptable as long as ur doin some upgrades
     
  8. JohnnyGoo

    JohnnyGoo Well-Known Member

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    Ya don i know they do and work the same no matter which way they face.and yes sometimes its nessesary to have them that way to intonate.just a OCD thing for me.i think the tone pros i got was a little wider than the stock ESP bridge which looked like his.i wasnt having intonation probs i just wanted a better bridge
     
  9. seedlings

    seedlings Member

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    Action was where I started, because I put 9s on, though I didn't get feeler gauges out. It's low with no buzz, but not as low as the Parker or the Fender. If you need numeric measurements, I can get those after work.

    CHAD
     
  10. JohnnyGoo

    JohnnyGoo Well-Known Member

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    Ur right don,looks like alot of variation on his bridge for the intonation.i try to use my good tuner when intonating but i also grab the old clip on when just sittin on the couch playin
     
  11. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    No need for measurements - if it is low, that's fine. Did you try a new set of strings - and if so, did that make any difference? That set of saddles makes no sense to me.
     
  12. potatofarmer

    potatofarmer Member

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    I put a Gotoh on my LP100 specifically for this problem. It has more saddle travel than the stock Epi bridge did, which mostly fixed the problem. I finally had to go to a lighter string gauge (12s!) to fix it completely. No experience with harmonicas or roller bridges.

    What tuner are you using to intonate with? Most electronic tuners aren't precise enough; you need to use a strobe one, or a simulator of a strobe tuner. I like LSTune, it's free, and there are some free smartphone apps too.

    The suggestions of looking at your whole setup holistically are wise too. The higher your action is, the more you stretch the string when you fret so the further out your intonation has to be.
     
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  13. JohnnyGoo

    JohnnyGoo Well-Known Member

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    Potatofarmer i believe your correct in that the Gotoh bridge has more travel then the tonepros.i put a gotoh on a Epi less paul and now that i think about it it was a little wider than the tonepros.quality was just as good if not better plus about half the price
     
  14. seedlings

    seedlings Member

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    Using the boss TU-3 tuner on the pedal board, same as setting up other guitars. Process is set action, tune (always in playing position), verify open string tune with 12th fret tune, adjust saddle, repeat. Triads around the 12th fret and up are out of tune on this one, but fine on other 3 guitars, but could be tuner issues.

    Just had a thought... I'm not used to the SG neck yet, so maybe it is giving a little while fretting 12?

    CHAD
     
  15. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    You need a light touch on an SG neck - it is very whippy compared to many guitars, but if you are just gripping and not pulling or pushing, that should not be a problem.

    An ordinary tuner is perfectly good for setting intonation. I use a PC app called APtuner - it will do a full screen meter, and it has a really good feature which is a moving graph display of the pitch of all the major harmonics simultaneously. When tuning the lower strings, it is sometimes more tuneful to pitch the second harmonic rather than the fundamental.
     
  16. Goldmember

    Goldmember Well-Known Member

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    I had this same exact issue with both of my G-400 Pros. When I switched out the factory strings to my preferred Ernie Ball 11's, the E and G strings saddles, though maxed out, now intoned perfectly. You may want to try this. :)
     
  17. seedlings

    seedlings Member

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    The guy I bought the guitar from said he thought the original strings were still on the guitar (2003, mind you). I replaced the strings with Ernie Ball Super Slinky, and then re-did the setup and then intonation to find this problem. I might have a pack of GHS boomers somewhere that are 10s or 11s.

    CHAD
     
  18. seedlings

    seedlings Member

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    [​IMG]

    Doesn't this look better? What a relief (pun). After you guys asked about string height and relief, the feeler gague came out. The relief was two sheets of paper (instead of one) and the string heights were about 3/64 too low. On average it felt fine, but... after setting up to actual Gibson SG specs, she's intonated! Whew! Now I can stop obsessing over which bridge to maybe buy.

    Thanks so much!

    CHAD
     
  19. alans sg

    alans sg Well-Known Member

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    Hi , Just for reference the Gotoh nashville bridge has a lot more travel than a standard epi bridge , plus you get seem to get a lot more sound transference with the Gotoh bridge , i use them on all my epiphones , cheers
    Alan
     

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