What are your thoughts on the recent mass shootings and the increasing rate of these?

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by Layne Matz, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    Title says it all.
     
  2. plankton

    plankton Well-Known Member

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    Makes me think I'm glad I moved to Australia.
     
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  3. Didds

    Didds Well-Known Member

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    Makes me think I'm glad I was born in Australia
     
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  4. Worblehat

    Worblehat Well-Known Member

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    Makes me think I'm glad I live in Germany and Australia seems to be a nicer place for a vacation than the USA.
     
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  5. Tony M

    Tony M Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts are that this thread has no place
    on a guitar forum and should be deleted.
     
  6. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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  7. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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  8. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Active Member

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  9. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    Sounds a bit boring... You ever discuss world events backstage? Or your family? Or your troubles? Or your dreams?
     
  10. Tony M

    Tony M Well-Known Member

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    You asked for our thoughts.
    Those are my thoughts.
    Is there a problem?
     
  11. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    I didnt state there was a problem with what you said, i retorted with a question and clarification as to the rules of this section. I still ask, what do you think we should be talking about 'backstage'?
     
  12. GrumpyOldDBA

    GrumpyOldDBA Well-Known Member

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    Easy access to weapons that should not really be available to the public has done this.

    It is sad very sad.
     
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  13. Tony M

    Tony M Well-Known Member

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    Anything you want to talk about.
    Those were my first thoughts upon reading the title,
    my immediate "gut reaction" so I posted honestly and
    emotionally instead of making up a false logical reply.
    My thoughts and mine only. You asked. I answered.
    Sorry if I didn't stay within the imaginary guidelines.
     
  14. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Active Member

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    Nope. Background checks are already demanded for all new weapon purchases and all used weapon purchases through dealers. Please try another selection.

    Also, check your local founding fathers for the reason they wanted everyone armed: It was their belief that an armed populace could not be subdued by force from a centralized government. An armed populace keeps the government, uh, scared. Better a scared government than a scared populace. Do remember that the first battle of the Revolutionary War, the Battle of Lexington and Concord, was started on April 19, 1775, when the British military governor attempted to confiscate privately owned war weapons including cannons and rapid-fire muskets with bayonets from the citizens of Massachusetts. Our founding fathers witnessed this and created their laws to prevent this in the future.

    "Democracy is two wolves and one lamb voting on who is for dinner." - Ben Franklin

    "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

    “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” - Richard Henry Lee, Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republican

    "Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation." - James Madison

    "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788)

    "No free man shall be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson in three drafts of the Virginia Constitution

    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" - Noah Webster

    "The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." - Patrick Henry


    All the best,

    Bob
     
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  15. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    As for background checks, not all gun shops or sellers will perform them and even then many will not wait for results before selling a firearm. Example: Dylan Roof. Thats not to mention the various gunshow loopholes that enable people to circumvent background checks, nor are you accountign for the straw man provisions that enable one perosn to purchase more than enough firearms to sell them at a high rate to people who want to buy them illegally.

    If you want to talk about what types of arms people are allowed to have and how they should be regulated, thats a respectable debate but I think to make claims about what the founding fathers meant is not relevant to the types of military grade assault weapons and ammunition types we now have access to with relative ease. Its easier to purchase an assault rifle than a vehicle for instance, and far less documentation despite the comparable risks stastically with total car accident deaths around 37,000 people annually and total gun deaths around 36,000 annually (including accidents, homicides, and suicides).

    "A well regulated militia, being neccissary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"-the founding fathers

    I think that based on the time it was written, the time that has passed since then, the stastical as well as empirical data, and the technological advancments we've made as a species and nation require a comprehensive set of regulations regarding our 'Right to bear arms'.

    How can we define arms? Either as all weapons, or as the weapons available when the constitution was written. Either way the consitution was intended to be amended as needed, hence the reason there are provisions for that process.


    Look at how the state and federal governments reacted in Standing Rock, Ferguson, Pittsburg, New York, etc.

    Besides the Sound Cannons, rubber bullets, bean bags, tazers, flash bangs, tear gas, freezing water, and more the government has all the technology and weapons they could ever need to have a full police state type take over but they wont. Why? Becuase that largely eliminates many of the ways in which this technocratic capitalist system manages to survive.

    Even if 'they' decided to take away all the assault rifles, or even all guns any opposition would need to be far more creative than depending upon a firearm to retaliate or defend themselves against the state/federal governments with all their technology- which would never in the first place institute martial law or a police state and especially not to reclaim the over 3 million assault weapons that are currently in circulation.

    We can point to literally hundred of instances in which certain types of firearms have been utilized to kill high rates of people in a short span of time. If you would like some evidence I welcome you to read about any of the major mass shootings as well as the smaller ones- or even watch some cellphone footage of the events. Like drug addiction it seems like many people cannot empathize with the victims of unneccisary gun violence until it effects you personally.

    If you want to talk about the most effectual way to enslave people it is important to note whether you are refering to chattel slavery or wage slavery. Either way the most effectual way to enslave a populace is not to physically disarm them, it is to psychologically, economically and legislatively disarm them. Such is so in our current political system and popular culture which has been polarized by the lobbying efforts of private interests, primarily that of corporate and multinational entities which through their efforts legislatively and economically restrict public ability to effect meaningful change.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  16. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    The USA embrace a concept that is 233 years old. This is not in 1787 anymore. In today's reality, that concept causes what we witness every other day.

    By definition an assult weapon is ... an assault weapon. Every day, we see those weapons do what they was designed for ... assault and create havoc.
     
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  17. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Active Member

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    "If society is honest and historically accurate, the only question that has any relevance to the gun control debate is,

    "Do you trust those in government, now and forever in the future, to not take your life, liberty, or property through the force of government?" If the answer to that question is "no," then the gun control debate is over."

    - KrisAnne Hall, JD​

    Bob
     
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  18. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    If not empathy, then please have some common sense.
     
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  19. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    This
     
  20. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Active Member

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    Every dealer who wants to remain in business abides by the law requiring a background check. Some states have time limits for the gvernment to respond, after which the firearm can be provisionally transferred.
    There is no gun show loop hole. Any dealer must abide by the background check law or he looses his license. Individuals can sell weapons at gun shows but the shows are watched like hawks for allowing unlicensed bulk sellers. They also don't want to loose their licenses. "Straw men" who purchase in bulk are covered by regulations demanding that dealers report any suspicious transactions and once again the dealers live on the ragged edge of an unfriendly ATF who will pull a license and ask questions later so they won't risk it.
    Gun control supporters have dumbed-down the term assault rifle to include any semi-auto with a pistol grip. You still have to pull the trigger on a semi-auto once for each shot. Those are not assault rfles. By the original technical definition established with the forst one, the 1944 German model STG44 Sturmgewehr (translated "assault rifle"), an assault rifle is fully automatic. The AR-15 is semi-auto. ANY fully automatic weapon can only be legally purchased with a Class 3 NFA license that takes at least sixty days and sometimes nearly a year to acquire. It requires an ATF interview, deep background checks, and a $500 yearly fee to acquire and maintain. Then it must be carried at all times.

    We are talking apples to apples: un-rifled muskets could be reloaded in 1/3 the time it took to reload a rifled civilian musket. While the rifles were more accurate they were far slower to load. Muskets were also fitted with bayonets which were considered a far worse way to die than being shot. We are also talking about full-sized cannons that could kill multiple persons with a single shot. These were purchased via subscription by groups of private militia. When the militia heard the British were coming to get their military arms ("The regulars are out!") they removed the barrels from the cannons and buried them in the freshly plowed fields along with the cannon ammo and muskets. The Brits found one large cannon that was too large to hide and destroyed it.

    Here's how tough it is to transfer a weapon legally: My brother acquired my father's 100 year old Winchester model 1892 lever rifle. After my father died, my brothere heard that I had wanted it and decided to give it to me. To legally transfer it required a bunch of corporate paperwork at two dealers, two federal forms, four forms of I.D., and a federal firearms background check. My brother had to take it to a federally-licensed firearms dealer at his end who shipped it to another federally-licensed firearms dealer at my end. Before they could release it to me I had to go through the NICS federal firearms background check. This for a gift within one family.
    There are no federal forms or background check for ownership of a motor vehicle. All the paperwork is for financing and taxation. And, if you pay cash for a vehicle there is less hassle in buying an auto than there is in buying a firearm. I've been there and done that. Believe me, if you buy a firearm that costs as much as a car and finance it through the dealer you will fill out more paperwork.

    Bob
     
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