2015 SG Standard - now with P-Rails

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by ChubbyFingers, Sep 25, 2021.

  1. ChubbyFingers

    ChubbyFingers Active Member

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    Just fitted my long neglected 2015 SG standard with a pair of Seymour Duncan P-Rails.

    I used the standard pickup rings, not the adaptor ones, and two push-pulls using the S-D wiring diagram as a basis. I swapped the volume pot connections over and didn't fit the volume pot to volume pot ground wire, so I also have independent volumes.

    The push-pulls give me:
    1. Full humbuckers, coils in series - both buttons down
    2. Rails only - bridge p-p pulled
    3. P90s only - neck p-p pulled
    4. Humbuckers coils in parallel - both p-p pulled.
    I think I may have a solder short on the bridge p-p because I'm not sure the Rails shut down. I have to investigate that.

    Otherwise a new lease of life and those dreary, muddy 57 Classis gone 20210924_212120.jpg 2 P-Rails.jpg
     
  2. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    That's a great pickup configuration.
     
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  3. ChubbyFingers

    ChubbyFingers Active Member

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    Yeah, I thought so too. I didn't want to commit to mini P90s from the get-go, but if the P90 thing really grows on me I can either buy (or build) a P90 guitar next time.

    During lockdown and unemployment I've built:
    1. An SSS Strat
    2. An HH Strat
    3. A Tele with Hotrails
    4. A Tele with Quarterponders
    5. A Tele with a Little 59 humbucker and a Vinyage Stack
    6. A thinline with a La Brea set
    Gawd I need a new job!
     
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  4. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    My 2015 SG Standard has a stock hand wired electronics with push/pull potentiometers .
     
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  5. ChubbyFingers

    ChubbyFingers Active Member

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    The Gibson push-pulls fitted to the 2015 SG Standard, like mine, are simple on-off single pole single throw (SPST). They're fine for basic coil splits, where you just need an on/off to dump the "middle" wires to ground but won't cope with the wiring above.

    Gibson push-pull:

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...sr3T3WvXzlXYIJN8n31VkW2ELX_NfPXUaAp4DEALw_wcB

    For the circuit I'm using you need double pole double throw (DPDT) on-on ones like these:

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EP1201PP--dimarzio-ep1201pp-pushpull-pot-dpdt-500k-ohm
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
  6. MR D

    MR D Active Member

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    There is a 1st time for almost everything and I've never heard someone call '57's 'Dreary'. Articulate (needing a li'l 'Heft' maybe) was always my opine.
    You seem to know what time it is so I will not say .......anything to see if you can get the most out of them.
     
  7. ChubbyFingers

    ChubbyFingers Active Member

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    I found the 57s a little dark for my taste, and coil split they sounded very underwhelming.

    Everything's subjective of course, so what sounds dull and muddy to me might sound like guitar perfection to you, but the P-rails seem to have more top end and more "bite", which is what I wanted.
     
  8. MR D

    MR D Active Member

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    Right, we're all different. I have yet to split or tap '57's. Fairly recently I saw a thread about combining the '61's w/'57s and tried it, and BANG, that combo has fast become my go-to configuration on an SG...it also handy when splitting up a pair of '61's that '57's can be either position.....
    BTW, IDK if the SD Rails have Quick-Connects? I am figuring you would know, and......I Hav seen here on ETSG recently that Mojo something or other has the quik-connect kits so as to make it easier than rippin out the PC Boards and soldering everything. That would make it easier for someone like me with 4 thumbs to get a differnt P-Up config in there if I feel the need...OR do the SD's offer the Quik-Connects as well ? Last I looked they do not......
     
  9. Les’s Nemesis

    Les’s Nemesis Member

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    Commit, commit! Everyone needs a guitar with P90's.
     
  10. Decadent Dan

    Decadent Dan Active Member

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    Cool idea but at 18.9k bridge and 13k neck, I wonder about the clean … 18.9 is hotter than a Dirty Fingers.
    Also, if the p-90 part is roughly half of the 18.9, that’s put it at around 9.45k which is also hotter than a P-90.
    It might be exactly what somebody else is looking for.
     
  11. ChubbyFingers

    ChubbyFingers Active Member

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    So I finally got the wiring to work, once I figured out the SD wiring diagram has the labels for the bridge and neck transposed.

    In humbucking modes, good humbucker growls.

    In rail mode, sweet, almost [insert rude word here beginning with Str and ending in ocaster] single coil tones.

    In P-90 mode, yup P-90 sound, and a bit louder than the rail coils.

    Impedances are, according to the SD website, 18.9 kOhms at the bridge, 13.0 kOhms in the neck, and my own measurements indicate maybe a 50/50 split between coils. So yes, maybe hotter than a regular vintage single coil or a P-90, but not massively so.

    As for wiring, you can either buy the pickups with the Triple Shot mounting rings (see below) or do as I did and wire them the old fashioned way, with, um, wires and a soldering iron.

    The Triple Shot mounting rings come with a little PCB all of their own, and all you have to do is solder the pickup wires to the pads provided. Then there are two pickup wires (hot and ground) that you simply connect in place of your old, not coil split, humbuckers. There may be a third, shield, wire, I don't know. Microswitches on the edges of the mounting rings are used to select your pickup mode.

    I was lucky in that my SG did NOT have a PCB. I also elected NOT to spend the extra $40-ish per pickup on the Triple Shot mounting rings. So they were wired up using 500k volume pots and 500k push-pull tone pots. You need proper DPDT push-pulls, not the Gibson SPST ones, by the way. The Gibson ones are simple "on/off", and fine for a basic coil split, but you need "on/on" ones, and two sets of contacts per switch.

    I used the SD "option 2" wiring diagram as my basis, but remember they've got the bridge and neck labels, labels not the wiring, transposed.

    I also modified the wiring so that the black P-90 "hots" ran direct to the volume pots, and the reds via the switching.

    I also wired the volume "ins" to the volume pot middle lugs, the outs to the left lugs, and omitted the volume pot to volume pot ground, giving me independent volume controls.

    Finally I wired the tone controls for "vintage" operation, with the tone pot wires run from the "out" lug rather than the "in". I also used 0.047 uF caps as suggested I n the SD wiring diagram. No big deal if you choose 0.022 uF caps instead. I used 10 cent apiece modern caps, not $500 "vintage unobtainium" ones though.
     
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  12. Decadent Dan

    Decadent Dan Active Member

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    What difference would that make?
    Didn’t you just gut it anyway?
     
  13. ChubbyFingers

    ChubbyFingers Active Member

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    ^ Yes. All the original parts are safely stowed away too.

    Some people get put off by the sight of a PCB though.
     

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