57 Classic in the SG

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by guitarbilly74, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. tolm

    tolm Well-Known Member

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    That's a very good point. They do sound more similar on the neck position and both pickups together on the ES is a particularly nice clear and warm tone. Bridge '57+ on the SG has a 'thrashiness' - and 'urgency' - to it, which I think really suits the guitar. I guess it's kinda the raucous tone I expect from an SG but it wouldn't suit the majestic ol' 335.
     
  2. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    Well said sir, the majesty of the ol' 335, indeed. A trashy harsh tone would never do her justice.
     
  3. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    Not to be contrary, but is the SG really raucous or is it that many players have been able to get a good raucous tone from an SG?

    Other guys have gotten very smooth sweet SG tones. It's a versatile guitar, as is the 335.

    I've had both 335's and SG'S; between the similar neck access, pickup configurations, etc., they are a lot more alike than not, despite the obvious differences in sound when A/B'd in a practice room where the sounds are more clearly heard - unlike on the gig.
     
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  4. JohnP

    JohnP Member

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    My guitars don’t behave. Most of the time my 335 wants to play heavy Rock, my SG wants to play Jazz or Funk. My Strat wants to play Sweet Soul and my LP doesn't want to play anything at all for the moment. Fortunately they all are flexible and can be manipulated to play other styles as well to meet expectations. This business is all about image and what tools are used in the studio is sometimes a well kept secret.
    The 57 classic has an even EQ response, medium output and good clarity. It’s a useful tool – but it’s really just a tool. At the end of the day it’s about how the individual electronics interact whit the individual guitar, the individual amp and the individual player.

    To illustrate: For years I thought this awesome tone came from the hollowbody that appears in the video. I was very surprised when I later found out what guitar was actually used for this recording (sorry, not an SG this time)...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdDrDa9PGJg"]D.A.D. - Sleeping my day away - YouTube[/ame]

    This is an interesting video on the subject of comparing PAF-tones (sorry, not an SG this time either, still quite enlightening)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbgUMqUMns"]Guitar World reveiws the new DiMarzio PAF 36th Anniversary - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  5. GTSG

    GTSG Active Member

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    You can't compare 335s, LPs and SGs, Strats or PRS etc etc.

    First off lets understand something clearly here. The 335, the LP and the 22-PRS all place the neck poles at 18-3/4 inch's from the mid-nut. In other words "directly" over the second major harmonic or 24th fret. The Strat and the SG place the neck poles at 19-1/4 from the nut thus in great position for clarity and bright note definition. The "neck" postion is where "clarity" becomes a trade off with warmth and a more pronounced bass response. Which is why people play LPs, 335s and 22-fret PRS. [I hope, I'm guessing for sure]. They feel the balance, warmth, and slightly better bass response? Right?

    As far as a 57 or 57+. much of this baffles me. You can get great cleans out of both. Depending if you play a solid body Mahogany or a semi-hollow Maple is really where I would focus more on 57 or 57 plus. Theres simply no need for a plus in a 335/339 jazz box etc. These guys by large are playing clean, clear thus articulation especially in chord progressions.

    You should want this regardless of what you play as a "first" priority. Its the same thinking with amps. Its much easier to go from GREAT CLEAN to Great DIRTY, than go from Great Dirty to Great Clean. If a Volume Boost is all you seek from 1-3 on your toggle buy a Boost pedal, BBE cheap and effective. If your coils are split there is no way around not buying a boost pedal. My point is this, why not set the guitar for three positions in sync which are all useful in the pure clean realm, then built your tones from there.

    What I see is these outrageous hot bridge pups that "cannot" do clean chords at all., or seriously lack in doing so. So all you can play is lead runs, two string bass backing? I'm sorry I don't get it. A pedal board will do that.

    Clean is the priority always for me. Perhaps we differ in musical approach and concept.
     
  6. JohnP

    JohnP Member

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    Hey, but of course they can be compared – that’s my point :) They are just tools that basically do the same thing. What comes out is what the guitar inspires you to put in and that’s what I love :thumb: They can sound very different, but also pretty much the same depending on what you play, your amp and speakers etc. I avoid swapping PU’s – I swap guitars. It’s just a perspective.

    I agree with you that good acoustics and a good clean tone is the starting point. I personally avoid hot PU’s but that’s just individual taste. My SG has the nicest clean sound – but it’s also my oldest guitar (refer to the discussion in the PAF comparison video in my previous post).
     
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  7. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you make some really excellent points - and one is close to my heart.

    The placement of the polepieces on the neck pickups, as in the LP/335 (PRS, too, but they don't figure in my guitar world) being at the 24th fret node and the Strat and usual SG being close to the bridge. I measured my ES-175 and the neck pickup polepieces are in approximately the same place too.

    Which is why I've gotten to like the Norlin style SG's which butt the pickup against the neck, at the 24th fret node like the LP and 335!

    SG action and weight but a bit warmer sound from the neck pickup.

    I measure the P90 on a guitar set up like the classic SG Special, and the polepieces were app. 20" from mid-nut. Even a bit further than on a Strat! How that works with the P90's themselves, well, I don't know.

    The second area of interest is the idea of getting a good clean sound as a basic tone and platform and using pedals for distortion and other FX.

    I've been doing this since I began playing. Yes, in the studio I will enjoy getting "pure tube distortion" with one of my amps, but mostly I like a clean sound as a basic canvas for adding other colorations.

    Plus, the clean sound itself has to be sweet, articulate, and based on the acoustic sound of the string itself vibrating.

    One thing I do like about the 57/57+ is that is brings out a tiny bit more difference between the neck and bridge position.

    Anyway, I'm with you on the clean sound thing!
     
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  8. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    You sure are right about the use of studio gear which varies from the stage gear. When I saw the Who on the Who's Next tour I loved Pete's SG Special/Hiwatt sound....but later on I found out he played a Gretsch and a Fender amp in the studio for that one.

    I think your guitar misbehavior proves the versatility of all those classic designs.
     
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  9. tolm

    tolm Well-Known Member

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    True, true ... I've got some 'Strat' tones out of my SG neck pickup at a push and the 335 can get close to the SGs thrash with the right amp/pedals ... I guess the SG just brings out my 'bad boy' attitude playing. :)

    Heck, my main guitar is a Firebird with 3 P90s and I play everything from The Ramones to the Foo Fighters via U2 and The Kings of Leon on it ...
     
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  10. mdubya

    mdubya Well-Known Member

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    I do think my guitars sound as alike as they sound different.

    I seem to spend a lot of time dialing them in to sound and play more like each other, which is always a circular exercise. I find great amusement in the whole thing. :)
     
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  11. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    For a while in the late 70's I was taking a Strat, SG Special and 335 to gigs; of course in the studio or rehearsal room I could hear the differences between each guitar.

    When I recorded live gigs I was surprised to learn that unless I knew which guitar was being used I could not tell.

    I went down to one, maybe 2 guitars, live.

    Can we really tell what type of guitar is used on a recording just by sound?
     
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  12. BlackSG91

    BlackSG91 Well-Known Member

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    I think you have a really good point that I haven't thought about in depth. But when you put it that way, it makes sense. I own about 16 guitars so I do a lot of sound comparisons. You can notice subtle differences but overall when you really think about it, it's sometimes hard to tell the differences right away, unless you know exactly what guitar is being played in each track.:hmm:
     
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  13. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    I could always pick out the guitar that had a vibrato arm, which at that time was an SG. Other than that it was a bit harder than one would think, unless one's instruments are very different sounding.

    Changing an amp setting or hitting a pedal made more obvious differences, even switching pickups.
     
  14. GTSG

    GTSG Active Member

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    Subtle nuance in different ranges, higher mid, treble etc. But right the amp EQ or pedals changes the ballgame. Look at Clapton doing the Crème re-union on a Strat with a boost 25db.
     

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