Alternatives to Grover Rotomatics?

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by holmcross, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. holmcross

    holmcross New Member

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    Gotta take some weight off of the headstock (yeah, another neck dive post). Only requirement is the new heads have to be black chrome or in that vein to match the guitar. Grover never got back to me about the weight of the rotomatics, but I understand they're pretty heavy.

    First choice would be something that I don't have to drill new holes for. Second choice would be something like stamped vintage tuners like Kluson has, but I don't know if you can just grab any 3+3 machine head and throw it onto there.
     
  2. koaguilds

    koaguilds Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
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  3. holmcross

    holmcross New Member

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  4. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    At the risk of sounding like a broken record....

    Hipshot, Hipshot
    [​IMG]
    Hipshot......
    6GLO locking open gear.... Even with the Universal Mounting Plates (UMP = no drill installation) they feel lighter than the non-locking licensed Grovers I took off. I'm sure I could save more weight with aftermarket plastic buttons, but I haven't bothered. Yes, they come in black, and non locking........should that be your thing...
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  5. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Grover 135N - Direct replacement, no hole drilling.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    "Direct Replacement"? Umm no. Not for Rotomatics
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. holmcross

    holmcross New Member

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    Never used anything by hipshot before. Really, the weight is the most deciding thing for me, though looks are also important (if I didn't care about looks I'd slap the Gotoh stealth tuners on there, but they wouldn't look good on my SG).

    Really wish the manufactures posted reliable weight. Kluson just told me what the shipping weight was of a set of six (like I give a damn) and didn't bother to answer any of my specific questions. Weight is a pretty important element of these things!
     
  8. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    Well, since I got out of the business quite a number of years ago, I no longer have access to a postal scale so I can't help with an exact weight. Logically, open gear is going to weigh less than enclosed, so there's that. Swapping the buttons to plastic would also help as the metal Grover beans are heavy muthas, those you can get stupid cheap on eBay..... Combine the two......
     
  9. holmcross

    holmcross New Member

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    According to the specs the 6GLO is 1.23 oz ~ 34.87 grams each and on the gotoh webpage the SG301 are listed as 36.2 grams each, both including the mounting hardware. I haven't crunched the numbers but that little difference may be significant given how far they are mounted from the center of gravity. Thanks for the suggestion!

    Now if I could only compare that to the rotomatics.... I guess I could pull em off and weight them but as my Les Paul is in the shop my SG is my only electric guitar at the moment.

    Course i could pull the high E string off... I play heavy metal, who needs that string after all? :D
     
  10. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    My bad. I misunderstood original post.
    Was thinking of direct replacements of the stock tuners (see below) found on most garden variety SG
    instead of installing Grover rotomatics. But now realize Grover rotomatics are currently installed on the guitar in question.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    True enough. Since I bought my Hipshots, I've been totally happy with them, so much so that I'll be installing them on any subsequent axes. Also, bear in mind, you'd be upgrading to locking tuners at the same time. You'd save more with the non locking open tuners, but I feel the trade off is worth it.
    Happens, no harm, no foul.
     
  12. Dave_Death

    Dave_Death Well-Known Member

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    I have these. They are a black and a direct replacement for the Grover metal buttons. They take a heap of weight off the headstock. Solved my issue for under $20. You unscrew the button, put new button on and rescrew. A reasonably intelligent and well-trained chimpanzee could do it.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. holmcross

    holmcross New Member

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    Hey Dave, do you need to remove the machine heads from the neck to get the buttons off? Assume this chimpanzee is only well trained enough to type on the keyboard and perform pentatonic riffs :)
     
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  14. Dave_Death

    Dave_Death Well-Known Member

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    No, you just use a screwdriver to remove the screws holding the buttons on, remove the buttons, then put new buttons by reversing the procedure. You are only removing the philips screws on the ends of the buttons (one per tuner)

    They are acrylic. Took 59 grams off of the headstock, which on an SG is a lot. I used these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fit-for-Gro...color-acrylic-button-6ps-FR-20B-/151411812679

    You can put the six metal buttons in a sock and keep that in your pocket for self defence if you live in a rough area
     
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  15. holmcross

    holmcross New Member

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    Just installed em. I ordered them on your suggestion in a thread I made about this, but I thought you had to take the whole machine head off and knock the buttons out with a punch. I figured if I had to take the machine heads off, might as well replace em with better ones.

    I posted a follow up with some pics in tthe other thread:

    http://www.everythingsg.com/threads...-but-its-just-so-uncomfortable-to-play.31981/

    Brilliant solution, Dave. Guitar feels great now!
     
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  16. Dave_Death

    Dave_Death Well-Known Member

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    Now that you know how easily they come off just check them every now and then with the screwdriver. You don't want them coming loose. Worth checking the nut on the front of the headstock and the other screws at the same time.
     
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  17. Raiyn

    Raiyn Well-Known Member

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    Those same buttons will also fit the Hipshots should you be so inclined.
     
  18. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    We see this over and over and over... someone ought to make a sticky and set it up in a visible position. Neck dive solution: GET RID OF THE GROVER ROTOMATICS
    (or at least the buttons).

    The darn sticky should go in the EGpiphone section too, because the G-400s seem
    to be plagued with neck dive since they come stock with Grover Rotomatics.
    To cure neck dive on an Epi G-400... GET RID OF THE GROVER ROTOMATICS.

    Those are excellent tuners, but they should never be installed on any SG.
    There it is.... There are so many better options, no one should have to arm wrestle with their guitar.

    Also, if you're curious about the actual weight of the various types of tuners,
    go to the StewMac web site and compare. Stew Mac gives accurate weight info
    about the products they sell, both in grams and ounces:
    http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Solid_Peghead_Guitar_Tuning_Machines/
    Use as your reference the Grover Vintage Keystone tuner. Those are designed as
    direct replacement for the stock tuners, and are the same weight and fit in the same holes. Write that down
    and then compare it to any other tuner you are considering. Gotoh makes a similar
    tuner, and I installed those on my Epi ES 339 with no problems, so they fit the metric instruments.
     
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  19. Gibsg

    Gibsg Well-Known Member

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    The new Kluson Revolution machine heads are great, they are very light , ratio is 1/19

    [​IMG]
     
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