Angus Young Signature 2013 - batwing?

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by LTBR, Mar 2, 2021.

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  1. LTBR

    LTBR New Member

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    Is this guitar made after a specific model? I've read both 1968 and 1970. Seems like the custom one is done from a 70 model. I have the regular one.

    If an exact model has been a template maybe there should exist a batwing that's a perfect fit? I doubt it but.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  2. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Can't see your picture but this was the 2013 USA signature:

    [​IMG]

    No, these weren't modeled after any specific SG, but are most similar to his Ebony '65 Standard with witch hats that became his number 1 live guitar for Black Ice and beyond, with lightning bolt inlays added.

    Because it uses the 1991-2012 SG Standard body design, a batwing that fits one of those should fit, but you will likely have the bottom most screw hole from the original pickguard exposed because the angel wing design sticks out closer to the edge of the body there.
     
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  3. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    ... and now my pic is gone too! Let's try again...

    [​IMG]
     
  4. pancake81

    pancake81 Well-Known Member

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    If I am understanding your question correctly you are wanting to fit the above guitar with a full size batwing pickguard , correct?
     
  5. pancake81

    pancake81 Well-Known Member

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    Well.. For the sake of moving forward I am going to assume you are wanting to ad a full size batwing pick-guard to the above USA line AY signature.

    Permission to Land hit some of the key point here. That is, even once you get the pick-guard to fit, you will still have some exposed holes from the angel wing pick-guard (half pick-guard). Tat is just due to shape and how it contours the guitar. The batwing, although, bigger, does not cover the same areas as the smaller half pick-guard. So you will ave to live with the holes being exposed. Not the end of the world, but may not be the finished look you are were expecting on your expensive model. Subsequently, you will have drill some holes for your batwing to secure as designed. Forever altering the guitar (from its original state), should you want to revert back to the half pick-guard, you will now have what appears to be random holes on the face of the guitar.

    The next obstacle to tackle is the full size pick-guard. Angus does this weird (but brilliant) modification where the rear pick-up has a pick-up ring on his guitars. My understanding is so that he (or his tech) can ensure the pickup remains parallel with the strings. The pick-up ring design offers greater articulation than the dog ear design that are typically used on most standards with a full size pick guard. The good news is, because you have a half pick-guard, both of your pick-ups already have pickup rings. That is a plus, as now you don't have to add one.

    The down side is, you have two... One on the neck pickup and one on the bridge. Angus does not have one of the neck pick-up. So you can either remove that one, or leave it on I suppose. The greater issue I think will come down to altering the batwing to accommodate the pickup ring (or rings). See, the batwing was not designed to accommodate the extra room required for the pickup rings, as those are usually only on the half pickguards, as there is nowhere to attach the pickups to.

    So... To do it "ala Angus" you would remove the front pick-up ring, fit the batwing pick-guard, while attaching the neck pick-up to the pick-guard. Then place the pick up ring for the bridge pick up “over” the batwing pickguard. But all of this will still leave some holes from the original half pick guard.

    In short, I think the take home message is that it is not as easy and slapping on a Creamtone full size pickguard....

    I will post some photos of all of what I am referring to shortly
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  6. pancake81

    pancake81 Well-Known Member

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    Okay.. So here is your guitar in question (beautiful by the way :cool:). Notice how both the neck AND bridge pick up have a pick-up ring.

    [​IMG]

    Next up is how a SG full size pick-guard is set up. Notice the lack of pick-up rings. This is because the pick-up attaches to the back of the pick guard. Obviously this design would not be functional on the half pick-guards, as the pick guard to not surround the pick-up.

    [​IMG]

    Lastly, the Angus set-up. Notice how the neck pick-up has no pick-up ring, which is normal for the full pick-guard. HOWEVER, Angus gas added the pick-up ring to the bridge pick-up.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Hopefully this makes some sense. I am a visual learner, hence the photos. If I am way off base here let me know and I will try to provide additional input
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
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  7. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    In case anyone wants to have the pickup surround and the large pickguard they don't actually have to cut into the pickguard if that's what you're suggesting. One can just stick the surround on top of it. If one feels that it would get too high it's easier to sand it down than to cut a hole in the guard, the latter for witch there's not really a reason anyway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  8. pancake81

    pancake81 Well-Known Member

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    Great point, thanks for clarifying VT
     
  9. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've always been curious how Ang's tech implemented that mod, because you must have to not only drill out the existing height adjustment screw holes in the batwing wide enough to fit the entire spring through them, you'd also need longer mounting ring screws to reach through the pickguard as well (and holes in the batwing for them). Seems like a pain when you could just raise the polepieces to compensate for the lack of pickup angle. That's what I do with my batwing SG.

    Actually, I forgot you have the CS Angus signature. How did they do it on that? Now I'm curious.

    Damn, didn't even occur to me that you could just cut it around the entire mounting ring. Maybe that's how it's done?
     
  10. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    I actually don't know how it's done on those particular guitars, I just assumed you put the rings on top so that's what I've always done. Not much trouble at all really. And as you say, plenty of easier ways to achieve the desired effect if one insists on having the pickups angled. I just think it looks good and I bet that's the reason they did it as well. It's been a while since I last did it but I seem to remember just shortening the springs and not having them go all the way though.
     
  11. everdying

    everdying Well-Known Member

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    one could just a custom full guard to cover that bottom exposed hole :p
     
  12. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    But if the springs are just pushing against the bottom of the batwing, which is flat, I would think it would not have the desired effect. I'd also think you'd have to at least widen the screw hole so that the screw can go through it at an angle.
     
  13. everdying

    everdying Well-Known Member

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    the springs would be pushing between the bottom of the guard and the pickup mount.
    u dont need to widen the holes to fit the spring thru, just large enough for the pickup mounting screw to maintain its angle relative to the pickup ring...and then just slip the spring over the screw before putting on the pickup.
    so one could shorten the spring a little to compensate for the thickness of the guard.
     
  14. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    The head of the screw is very small and rounded though, so it's not exactly anchored to the surface of the mounting ring it sits in. If you drop a screw into an empty mounting ring, not attached to anything, it will freely swing from side to side. I mean, it's not even a really great system to begin with. I have guitars designed to have mounting rings and the pickups aren't really parallel with the strings, because the pickups are adjusted low and the springs don't possess enough force.

    In fact, I just looked at my SG and the pickups are angled the opposite direction of the strings!
     
  15. Huntroll

    Huntroll Active Member

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    The 24 fret 70's tributes came with pickup rings,
    and took to the full batwings quite well, I would say -

    24fretSG.jpg
     
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  16. pancake81

    pancake81 Well-Known Member

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    not including the pick up ring eliminates a step for sure. Yours looks great
     
  17. Huntroll

    Huntroll Active Member

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    24 fret SGJ's like 'em too -

    SGJ-4.JPG
     
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  18. everdying

    everdying Well-Known Member

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    its a combination of everything to align it with the stars :p
    when u put the pickup with cover into the ring, it will sort of sit right, thereby aligning that screw...
    now when u put a spring into that screw, and with it being under the pickguard, it usually gets compressed abit more...so some would just shorten it...as the above poster mentioned.

    now if the pickup doesnt have a cover, then thats a whole diff thing :p
     
  19. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    I can't check how I did it because I'd have to take the whole thing apart but I'm fairly sure that's how it is. The pickup rings screwed into the pickguard, the adjustment screws going through the rings without spring and the spring underneath the guard. If there had been any trouble involved I'm sure I'd remembered.

    But I see what you mean about the screw angle so if that's what one is after this is perhaps not the way to go, it's purely cosmetic. I didn't do it because I wanted angled pickups, because who cares. And for those that do, as you said, adjust the pole pieces instead. Plenty of other ways to achieve the effect if you absolutely need to. ( a scotch brite, cotton &c &c)

    And so since that's not what I was after, I just screwed everything straight. Actually, as you also point out, the rings themselves don't guarantee angled pickups so it's probably the least effective way to go.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  20. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see. Yeah, my pickup angles are all over the place. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that McCarty designed the rings to be angled just so that they didn't get in the way of the strings. Even with them angled, I have a few guitars with wear marks in the rings at the neck side from the strings' vibration. They don't actually touch the rings, so the sheer disruption of air or magnetic fields seems to do it. I don't mind though; it makes for neat honest play wear!
     

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