Another new SG....

[MR D]

Gibson has been shipping SG Standards in soft cases since at least late 2019. They still do. Look it up. Gibson.com

The 2016 SG Standard had a ridiculous A$$ Hag-Bag as well. GIBSON has been getting cheaper and cheaper (not that they ever were not cheeep) and now after the bankruptcy GIBSON is putting their cheapest pickup's and issuing Soft-Shell cases on STANDARD Models. Fuckin cheapskates ! I did not buy the 2016 SG Standard because it was $1199 and no HSCase, **** ALL THAT !!! Settling on a Guitar-a-thon SG Special Faded, new, for $542 and a usd Epi G-400 HSCase for $65, was just a better move that year. I did not mind the 490's at that price.
2017 SG Standards were $1299 ALL-IN w/HSCase, '57 Classics, Locking Grover Tuning Machines and White Rolled Neck Binding...IMO, the 2017 (and 2018 same specs but w/'61's) SG Standard was a Far superior guitar than the 2016. I actually waited 5 years for GIBSON to issue that guitar ! thats the way it is w/GIBSON, I have to wait for GIBSON to make the guitar w/specs I want...if the axe doesnt have what I want on it, I dont even consider it...makes zero sense for me.

 

[Decadent Dan]

The 2016 SG Standard had a ridiculous A$$ Hag-Bag as well. GIBSON has been getting cheaper and cheaper (not that they ever were not cheeep) and now after the bankruptcy GIBSON is putting their cheapest pickup's and issuing Soft-Shell cases on STANDARD Models. Fuckin cheapskates ! I did not buy the 2016 SG Standard because it was $1199 and no HSCase, **** ALL THAT !!! Settling on a Guitar-a-thon SG Special Faded, new, for $542 and a usd Epi G-400 HSCase for $65, was just a better move that year. I did not mind the 490's at that price.
2017 SG Standards were $1299 ALL-IN w/HSCase, '57 Classics, Locking Grover Tuning Machines and White Rolled Neck Binding...IMO, the 2017 (and 2018 same specs but w/'61's) SG Standard was a Far superior guitar than the 2016. I actually waited 5 years for GIBSON to issue that guitar ! thats the way it is w/GIBSON, I have to wait for GIBSON to make the guitar w/specs I want...if the axe doesnt have what I want on it, I dont even consider it...makes zero sense for me.

I hear ya on the waiting, I gave up a long time ago when their faded bodies had so many pieces that they starting looking like a butcher block cutting board. Like they took scraps and glued them together then ran it through a planer.
Most of the newer bodies I’ve seen lately look much better.

 

[laza616]

when their faded bodies had so many pieces that they starting looking like a butcher block cutting board. Like they took scraps and glued them together then ran it through a planer.

How many pieces they were? Most i have seen was 3 pieces. I have never stumbled upon four or more pieces body

 

[MR D]

Those Custombuckers might be 490’s with no wax.

U kno DD, after finding out Korean Made TM's (stamped 'GIBSON DELUXE') were on my SG Original (key bein 'were')..GIBSON would have to be pretty hard-up, like, IDK Bankrupt ?...to do that......BUT, it wouldnt surprise me 1

 

[Decadent Dan]

How many pieces they were? Most i have seen was 3 pieces. I have never stumbled upon four or more pieces body

I’m fine with 3, not splitting the bridge posts but 4 and I think I saw a 5, maybe early 00’s, not sure. I’ll look around.

 

[laza616]

I’m fine with 3, not splitting the bridge posts but 4 and I think I saw a 5, maybe early 00’s, not sure. I’ll look around.

5 pieces??? Mozaic

 

[Decadent Dan]

U kno DD, after finding out Korean Made TM's (stamped 'GIBSON DELUXE') were on my SG Original (key bein 'were')..GIBSON would have to be pretty hard-up, like, IDK Bankrupt ?...to do that......BUT, it wouldnt surprise me 1

2020 Standard switch doesn’t say Switchcraft but it looks like one. The wire jacket says USA.

 

[pancake81]

The 2016 SG Standard had a ridiculous A$$ Hag-Bag as well. GIBSON has been getting cheaper and cheaper (not that they ever were not cheeep) and now after the bankruptcy GIBSON is putting their cheapest pickup's and issuing Soft-Shell cases on STANDARD Models. Fuckin cheapskates ! I did not buy the 2016 SG Standard because it was $1199 and no HSCase, **** ALL THAT !!! Settling on a Guitar-a-thon SG Special Faded, new, for $542 and a usd Epi G-400 HSCase for $65, was just a better move that year. I did not mind the 490's at that price.
2017 SG Standards were $1299 ALL-IN w/HSCase, '57 Classics, Locking Grover Tuning Machines and White Rolled Neck Binding...IMO, the 2017 (and 2018 same specs but w/'61's) SG Standard was a Far superior guitar than the 2016. I actually waited 5 years for GIBSON to issue that guitar ! thats the way it is w/GIBSON, I have to wait for GIBSON to make the guitar w/specs I want...if the axe doesnt have what I want on it, I dont even consider it...makes zero sense for me.

I am in the same boat Mr D. Every once in a while Gibson produces something that matches what I would have put on an order spec sheet. When that happens, I have to sit back and think. Hmmm, do I really need this one?

Sometimes I jump, but mostly no. I don't really need any guitars at this point. My 61RI I have had for 20 years. When Gibson released the 2007 Classic Custom, heck yeah. I scoured high and low to find one of those 400 to bring home. When the Angus Custom was released, that was probably "The one" I had to have. So, pulled the trigger.

But also, I think this is why high end instruments suffer with new sales. Often vintage or older (even 10 year old) models are sought after and can be had cheaper than new. Also, folks like us have numerous guitars. Do any of us really need a new from store Gibson...? Production cost and wages keep going up for companies, while the end users like us slowly acquire the guitars we really want. All of this in an industry where innovation rarely equals marketing success. Most folks here don't want to see some new crazy SG or some new Gibson design. Some do, sure. But overall, the model would not perform in sales.

So the question for brands like Gibson is, how to continue to sell and make a profit on a historic design that the market is flooded with. This is especially true for the SG. There are more Gibson SG's on the market (used) than any other Gibson model. So how does Gibson keep the new sales going? Well... Keeping cost down is one. So we see things like CNC machining taking over, and soft cases to save $25-$40. We see PCB boards and lower desired pick ups. These are all things to keep MSRP low so they keep moving out the door.

Another marketing tactic they have to use is to have different grades or levels of guitars. It doesn't really cost more to make a historic correct carve on an SG. It does somewhat in Gibson's case, because they have luthiers do the work by hand. But most of us just want the carve, we don't care if it is by hand. Gibson could easily have the deep carve done on all SG's by the CNC machine. But then where is the case to charge triple for a historically accurate guitar? If the only difference between a USA line was if it was done by hand or not, the historic line would crumble.

I don't envy the position these companies are in. They build beautiful instruments, but they always have to find a way to keep them moving out the door. All in times when folks are having financial trouble and the world economy is rebounding from a major crisis. To spend $500... $1,000 or $5,000 on an instrument is a luxury. You are marketing your product solely to people with disposable income, and then you need to convince those folks who decided to purchase an instrument, that it needs to be your instrument. No easy feat..

The auto market faces similar pressure. But it is easily agreed that more people buy, use and require vehicles than musical instruments. Just think of your friends and family. How many of those folks have purchased a new vehicle in the last 5 years; as appose to how many have purchased a new guitar?

 

[PermissionToLand]

Yeah, for all the complaining about Gibson's price increases you hear, in reality they actually generally lag the rate of inflation. One stark example was the '61 Reissue, which went for several years without a price adjustment until suddenly it jumped from $1,650 to $1,900 in 2006, cue the outcry. But that was literally just tracking inflation from what the price was in 1998. Gibson was actually seeing its profit margin decreasing in those years between.

When you factor in inflation, their prices are generally stable with a few outliers here and there. Here's a fun experiment: the price of an SG Standard in 1961 was $265. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $2,300 today. Granted, the specs of a 1961 SG Standard would be most comparable to a modern Historic reissue, but the fact that you can now get either a Standard or Standard '61 for several hundred dollars cheaper is a good value.

Custom Shop prices have really ballooned beyond inflation since 2015 (so to be clear, my above comments only apply to the USA line).

Pancake's comments are interesting. It's actually surprising how strong the new guitar market remains despite the vast supply of used guitars, and the fact that unlike many other goods, a guitar can be just as functional 40 years later as it was brand new. Curiously, the pandemic saw an uptick in demand for a lot of luxury goods because the more well-off had better job security and were working from home with lots of free time on their hands. It's generally the middle and lower income workers who suffer the brunt of economic downturns, and they aren't generally buying Gibsons.

But beyond the pandemic, it's honestly a mystery to me how new guitar sales have held up as well as they have. Granted, I do believe the industry in general has been on a gradual decline for some time, often blamed on "kids these days" not playing rock and roll, but I think the real reason is just an extremely saturated market and products that do not suffer planned obsolescence like most modern electronic gadgets. I think the future of the guitar industry will be scaled back manufacturing, especially with increasing concern for the environmental impact of our actions these days.

 

[PermissionToLand]

The auto market faces similar pressure. But it is easily agreed that more people buy, use and require vehicles than musical instruments. Just think of your friends and family. How many of those folks have purchased a new vehicle in the last 5 years; as appose to how many have purchased a new guitar?

The car analogy is a complicated one. The shortage of microchips really restricts supply right now in a way that guitar manufacture isn't affected so much. As you say, cars are a necessary fact of life for most Americans, and they generally last like 15 years, unlike guitars. All of that pushes the cost up in a way that you don't see with guitars. We've seen the average transaction price for a new car increase to around $30k IIRC (before the shortage). Some blame new technology like driver assistance features being pushed heavily, some blame safety mandates, but again, I think it's being misunderstood and like guitar prices, (ignoring the current supply crisis) automobile prices have actually stayed remarkably steady, all things considered.

Another experiment: A 1995 base model Corolla had an MSRP of $13k. With inflation, that would be $22k today. A 2021 base model Corolla stickers for $20k. On top of that, you have 26 years of engineering improvements and lots of new features like ABS, traction control, a touchscreen display, a backup camera, automatic braking & lane departure alert, TEN airbags, etc. All of that is standard on the base model. Oh, and the fuel economy is about 10 MPG higher in 2021 and the engine makes 40 more hp. And don't even watch a crash test of a '95 Corolla compared to a new one, you'll be disturbed.

I think another factor is that wages have not tracked with inflation, and people with less money simply buy used cars, so that's why you've seen cheap car options like the Honda Fit being discontinued. This pushes the average price of a new car upward because buying brand new is increasingly a luxury itself.

 

[Col Mustard]

when I came aboard this forum back in like 2008 or so
there was a lot of Gibson bashing, just like now.

Most of it turned out to be unjustified IMHO. Just like now.
I was a newbie on ETSG, and I was a newbie to electric guitars.
I'd been performing for decades on the folk circuit, using an acoustic
6 string and an electric bass.

So the electric guitar wasn't totally foreign to me, just a lot of the concerns
of electric guitarists were. I went through a period where I took notes while reading
posts here. sometimes I would figure out how to print out a whole thread,
particularly concerning pickups and tuners and strings and setup and all of the
hardware we love to consider.

There was a lot of hate for the 490R/490T combo back then too.
Most of it was unjustified, just like now. Gibson bashing hasn't changed in
a dozen years. I had bought a faded special SG, which cost me about $600.
That's exactly what I wanted, a Gibson guitar without the high price tag.
And that's what I got. It sounded awesome brand new, with its pair of 490
pickups, and it still sounds awesome after I've modded it with all the best of
everything I could buy or make, and according to what I learned on ETSG.

There's nothing wrong with the 490s. Nothing cheap about them. Other p'ups
might serve other players better, which is why the SG standards were equipped with
hotter bridge p'ups, just like Les Paul Standards. The 490/498 combo was THE Standard
for both SGs and Les Pauls (as well as other Gibbies) for literally decades.

Guys who say the 490R pickup sounds muddy simply don't know how to use their tone
controls IMHO. Mine never did anyway.
The only objection I ever had to them was that I did like a hotter p'up in the bridge position.
So my prize SG has the '57classic plus, which is maybe my favorite pickup. But if you want
to use your stock 490 set, simply adjust the pickup heights a bit, and maybe turn the volume
down on the 490R. It sounds awesome at 8, and the 490T can sound awesome at 10.

It ain't that hard, really.

 

[laza616]

1€ screwdriver will definitely make your factory guitar from sounding muddy, bluntly or weak to sound as good as you wish.
The guitar sellers should pack a manual on how to adjust everything on the guitar before playing, there would be a lot less hate on some pickups, brands and guitar models in general....

 

[MR D]

View attachment 46599



2020 Standard switch doesn’t say Switchcraft but it looks like one. The wire jacket says USA.

I C, looks like a Switchcraft, BUT is it ? It should be.......and I actually appreciate the Made in USA on the wire cover.

 

[MR D]

Yeah, for all the complaining about Gibson's price increases you hear, in reality they actually generally lag the rate of inflation. One stark example was the '61 Reissue, which went for several years without a price adjustment until suddenly it jumped from $1,650 to $1,900 in 2006, cue the outcry. But that was literally just tracking inflation from what the price was in 1998. Gibson was actually seeing its profit margin decreasing in those years between.

When you factor in inflation, their prices are generally stable with a few outliers here and there. Here's a fun experiment: the price of an SG Standard in 1961 was $265. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $2,300 today. Granted, the specs of a 1961 SG Standard would be most comparable to a modern Historic reissue, but the fact that you can now get either a Standard or Standard '61 for several hundred dollars cheaper is a good value.

Custom Shop prices have really ballooned beyond inflation since 2015 (so to be clear, my above comments only apply to the USA line).

Pancake's comments are interesting. It's actually surprising how strong the new guitar market remains despite the vast supply of used guitars, and the fact that unlike many other goods, a guitar can be just as functional 40 years later as it was brand new. Curiously, the pandemic saw an uptick in demand for a lot of luxury goods because the more well-off had better job security and were working from home with lots of free time on their hands. It's generally the middle and lower income workers who suffer the brunt of economic downturns, and they aren't generally buying Gibsons.

But beyond the pandemic, it's honestly a mystery to me how new guitar sales have held up as well as they have. Granted, I do believe the industry in general has been on a gradual decline for some time, often blamed on "kids these days" not playing rock and roll, but I think the real reason is just an extremely saturated market and products that do not suffer planned obsolescence like most modern electronic gadgets. I think the future of the guitar industry will be scaled back manufacturing, especially with increasing concern for the environmental impact of our actions these days.

Yeah, for all the complaining about Gibson's price increases you hear, in reality they actually generally lag the rate of inflation. One stark example was the '61 Reissue, which went for several years without a price adjustment until suddenly it jumped from $1,650 to $1,900 in 2006, cue the outcry. But that was literally just tracking inflation from what the price was in 1998. Gibson was actually seeing its profit margin decreasing in those years between.

When you factor in inflation, their prices are generally stable with a few outliers here and there. Here's a fun experiment: the price of an SG Standard in 1961 was $265. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $2,300 today. Granted, the specs of a 1961 SG Standard would be most comparable to a modern Historic reissue, but the fact that you can now get either a Standard or Standard '61 for several hundred dollars cheaper is a good value.

Custom Shop prices have really ballooned beyond inflation since 2015 (so to be clear, my above comments only apply to the USA line).

Pancake's comments are interesting. It's actually surprising how strong the new guitar market remains despite the vast supply of used guitars, and the fact that unlike many other goods, a guitar can be just as functional 40 years later as it was brand new. Curiously, the pandemic saw an uptick in demand for a lot of luxury goods because the more well-off had better job security and were working from home with lots of free time on their hands. It's generally the middle and lower income workers who suffer the brunt of economic downturns, and they aren't generally buying Gibsons.

But beyond the pandemic, it's honestly a mystery to me how new guitar sales have held up as well as they have. Granted, I do believe the industry in general has been on a gradual decline for some time, often blamed on "kids these days" not playing rock and roll, but I think the real reason is just an extremely saturated market and products that do not suffer planned obsolescence like most modern electronic gadgets. I think the future of the guitar industry will be scaled back manufacturing, especially with increasing concern for the environmental impact of our actions these days.[/QUOT

TAXATION without representation is bad.

 

[PermissionToLand]

Holy ****, every time I click "show ignored content", I'm vividly reminded why I blocked that nutjob. Of course he's a fundamentalist libertarian, with English skills to match his intellect. I know the mods are very hands-off here, but advocating genocide should be a red line.

 

[FIREpunkMEDIC]

Holy ****, every time I click "show ignored content", I'm vividly reminded why I blocked that nutjob. Of course he's a fundamentalist libertarian, with English skills to match his intellect. I know the mods are very hands-off here, but advocating genocide should be a red line.

Right?! Not even gonna engage with that ****....

 

[MR D]

I am in the same boat Mr D. Every once in a while Gibson produces something that matches what I would have put on an order spec sheet. When that happens, I have to sit back and think. Hmmm, do I really need this one?

Sometimes I jump, but mostly no. I don't really need any guitars at this point. My 61RI I have had for 20 years. When Gibson released the 2007 Classic Custom, heck yeah. I scoured high and low to find one of those 400 to bring home. When the Angus Custom was released, that was probably "The one" I had to have. So, pulled the trigger.

But also, I think this is why high end instruments suffer with new sales. Often vintage or older (even 10 year old) models are sought after and can be had cheaper than new. Also, folks like us have numerous guitars. Do any of us really need a new from store Gibson...? Production cost and wages keep going up for companies, while the end users like us slowly acquire the guitars we really want. All of this in an industry where innovation rarely equals marketing success. Most folks here don't want to see some new crazy SG or some new Gibson design. Some do, sure. But overall, the model would not perform in sales.

So the question for brands like Gibson is, how to continue to sell and make a profit on a historic design that the market is flooded with. This is especially true for the SG. There are more Gibson SG's on the market (used) than any other Gibson model. So how does Gibson keep the new sales going? Well... Keeping cost down is one. So we see things like CNC machining taking over, and soft cases to save $25-$40. We see PCB boards and lower desired pick ups. These are all things to keep MSRP low so they keep moving out the door.

Another marketing tactic they have to use is to have different grades or levels of guitars. It doesn't really cost more to make a historic correct carve on an SG. It does somewhat in Gibson's case, because they have luthiers do the work by hand. But most of us just want the carve, we don't care if it is by hand. Gibson could easily have the deep carve done on all SG's by the CNC machine. But then where is the case to charge triple for a historically accurate guitar? If the only difference between a USA line was if it was done by hand or not, the historic line would crumble.

I don't envy the position these companies are in. They build beautiful instruments, but they always have to find a way to keep them moving out the door. All in times when folks are having financial trouble and the world economy is rebounding from a major crisis. To spend $500... $1,000 or $5,000 on an instrument is a luxury. You are marketing your product solely to people with disposable income, and then you need to convince those folks who decided to purchase an instrument, that it needs to be your instrument. No easy feat..

The auto market faces similar pressure. But it is easily agreed that more people buy, use and require vehicles than musical instruments. Just think of your friends and family. How many of those folks have purchased a new vehicle in the last 5 years; as appose to how many have purchased a new guitar?

IDK....BUT
Unlike Publicly owned entities, AFAIK, GIBSON is not re'q to tell anyone how much they are/aren't making, except the TAXMAN, yearly......so, IDK if anyone outside of GIBSON knows if they are cutting a profit or not....they could have over-seer's after the B'ruptcy, but that info also may not be public infromation either, IDK........they're business's doin quite well in the last 18-24 months and countless business's have died, so who knows if GIBSON is in dire straits and needed to raise prices. I surely dont know. BUT they did raise their prices..... I wouldn't even venture a guess as to whether GIBSONs turning a profit or not....but a 2021 SG 'Modern' Standard goin for $1700 w/Soft Shell case is a pretty hefty price tag for what that guitar actually is (I paid $1575 ALL-IN for a 2020 w/HSCase) .... Throw the usual obligatory tax in and then figure on having to buy a proper GIBSON HSCase? Comes out to almost $2100....IMO thats a lot to pay for that guitar. Most people will get it for less, but not all, especially non-CA$H, 0% Time-Credit customers. $2 Grand+ for an SG Standard ! Fuckin Eh, its not chump change ?

 

[MR D]

Holy ****, every time I click "show ignored content", I'm vividly reminded why I blocked that nutjob. Of course he's a fundamentalist libertarian, with English skills to match his intellect. I know the mods are very hands-off here, but advocating genocide should be a red line.

IDK If your referring to me, but flattery will get you nowhere.
I would ask you WTF a Libertarian is but i already kno its some sort of street code for a Librarian..and I've no need for that as I have memorized the entire Dewey Decimal system already.. DUH, u kno nada about moi !
Your pretty liberal with your insults and you act as if someone has offended you (how thats even possible, IDK?) BUT from what I see its you who does that..."DONT take $#!T from people "..is how I expect people to act, and its what I say as well.