Anyone here notice some dead notes above the 12th fret?

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by zone47, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. zone47

    zone47 Member

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    :mad:

    It's like my main SG sounds great until I get up there and then it's not happy anymore. I tweeked the trussrod and bridge but can't seem to get her dialed in. :dunno:
     
  2. Krosis

    Krosis Well-Known Member

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    I had this problem on the 15th fret of the high E string on my Epi G-400. It seemed to go away for now, but next time I get a set up I'm gonna bring it up with the tech and see what he says. I didn't have that problem prior to December.
     
  3. weemac

    weemac Active Member

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    It can happen, tweaks can help but sometimes it can plague a new guitar. Once everything settles a bit they can come right..
    Is it a new guitar?

    Eden.
     
  4. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, trussrod adjustment will not affect the neck above the 12th fret . Bridge and tailpiece adjustment may correct the problem . I would place a capo on the 12th fret,raise the bridge to the point that fret buzz is eliminated and the raise the tailpiece until the strings resonate freely, completely clearing the back of the bridge body . Fine tune from there, but I've only been teching for 30 some years, so what do I know ?
    Biddlin ;>)/
     
  5. BZM

    BZM Member

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    Sounds like you need to do a fret level/dress, if the truss rod adjustments aren't helping.
     
  6. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    koaguilds likes this.
  7. BZM

    BZM Member

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    Maybe; I never really read into it to be honest, haha! I just knew not to tighten it too much or it would break... mostly trial and error until I got the feeling that I liked. I had fret buzz issues in a few spots on my SG Special Faded for a few years - the only thing that ended up making me truly happy was getting a new nut and doing my own fret dress. (the nut especially helped with the buzz I was getting when hitting the low E string open).
     
  8. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like a worn out or badly made string . As the string vibrates and is tuned and pulled, the bottom of the string wears flat in the saddle and the string is distorted by constant tension(Some of the reasons they wear out.). Once in awhile you get a lemon right out of the package .
    Biddlin ;>)/
     
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  9. Heket

    Heket Well-Known Member

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    I have problems with my Gs. I don't know if it's a harmonic thing but if I have a note that doesn't sustain as well as the others, it's probably a G. This happens at least on the 6th string, 3rd string and 2nd string. Also my 12th fret 3rd string G is really short.

    The guy I went to for a setup said that Gibson sometimes has a problem with 'collapsing bridges' :dunno: He said mine could be beginning to collapse and that I should keep an eye on it.

    Every other note is fine. I just have weak Gs!
     
  10. dbb

    dbb Well-Known Member

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    Trussrods only affect the neck relief. Nothing else.

    Of course that affects many other things, but the truss rod is not a cure all - it is a starting point.

    Of course...once the relief is set, then the bridge, tailpiece and nut are significant. As Biddlin points out, above the 12th fret, the nut is not an issue.

    On so many strings? Is it your amp? A room resonance? How you EQ the amp?
    Usually such problems are on one string or one fret area. I'm not sure why ALL your G's are affected beyond a room resonance.

    Yes once in a great while, metal fatigue has caused some bridges to "collapse" but this is REALLY RARE! it should not be an issue with a new SG.

    "12th fret 3rd string G is really short"

    I assume you mean the decay of the note is short?

    Usually notes fretting out or going dead in the upper register is a fret leveling issue, and/or getting the bridge and neck to have EXACTLY the same curve.
     
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  11. Heket

    Heket Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure about a room resonance. As far as I'm aware it's happened on all my amps. And yes I mean the decay is short. Most noticible on that 12th fret one but also on the 8th fret of the 2nd string. The 3rd fret of the 6th string is ok but sometimes it can sound incredibly weak and drowned out by other notes. Now I try again, the 4th string 5th fret also does it. Just Gs!
     
  12. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    the first easy, cheap and obvious thing to do is put on a new set of strings... I don't mean to sound patronizing when I say this, just reminding us all of something we already know.
    *grins

    The OP's guitar might have a fret leveling issue. These things change as moisture content of the air changes, and even if your frets were fine a few months ago, something may have pushed up or down by swelling of wood, or shrinking. You can check it with a good straight edge, or ask a guitar tech to do it. Krosis' guitar might have one fret that's a little proud, I'd look for that.

    Heket's issue might be altered by a change of string guage... I think Gibson bridges falling down is an issue with really old guitars, not new ones. or the resonance issue with one particular note might be solved by an EQ pedal... I know, I know, I keep bringing this up like the voice of your conscience speaking.

    It's because I HAVE ONE, y'know. it's right there in my signal chain, so any time there's an issue like what Heket described, I think of all those little sliders down there at my feet, and I wonder if one (or two) of them might just make it go away. I also wonder about Heket's new modeling amp, and if the resonance problem was still there when she changes amp models... there's a lot going on inside that Vox, and I don't pretend to understand it even though I have one too.

    So, to conclude:
    1. new strings
    2. check for proud frets high up on the dusty end
    3. check neck for straightness/relief
    4. capo at fret XII and adjust bridge height till notes ring clear...
    *check that the strings aren't touching the bridge aft of the saddles, that can choke your notes
    5. reset intonation carefully
    6. good luck!
     
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  13. zone47

    zone47 Member

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    Well, it's a 2011 .... but my other SG does it as well, but not as bad, it's a 2006.
     
  14. zone47

    zone47 Member

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    Sounds like a good plan, thanks. I was looking at the saddles and it seems like they are not totally seated, (ABR bridge) but raising the tailpiece is a good idea too, it is all the way down on the body.
     
  15. Dadou

    Dadou Well-Known Member

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    I was going to open the same topic, so I'll post my issue here: just like Heket, ive got a problem with my G note (G string, 12th fret). this is the only dead spot that I have on my Sg. it would do it with the previous set of strings and it still does it with the new ones on. ive also tried to bend upwards and downwards the b and the d strings respectively, to see if it was a fret issue, but they just ring out loud and clear and they have endless sustain. idk, that g note is a b***h, the string plays well on its whole length apart from that fret. is it an intonation issue that I have?
     
  16. Heket

    Heket Well-Known Member

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    I've have trouble with my Gs since I got my guitar, which has since has had a handful of string changes, amps, professional setup and like Dadou I have also tried bending the other strings to the same place with no issue. It's most profound and the 12th fret 3rd string but still defiinitely noticible elsewhere.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one with G issues! Colonel, how does changing string gauge affect it? I don't really want to move away from 10s; 11s are too thick and 9s feel like string cheese.
     
  17. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    Dadou and Heket-Are your strings completely clearing the back of the bridge body, making contact only in the saddle slots ?
     
  18. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    zone47-ABR bridges are prone to all kinds of grief, not the least of which is just getting coated with crud . At your earliest convenience(next string change) you should take it off and give it a good cleaning and lube with light machine oil or graphite . While you have it off you can easily apply tiny drops of super-glue to the spring wire, between adjusters to stop it from rattling . Take care not to glue adjusters . I go old school and bend the spring in "v" shapes with a jeweller's screwdriver, but someone told me glue is better and that sounds right . The same procedures generally apply to your ABR bridge although clearance between tailpiece and bridge frame shouldn't be an issue, but you still want to use minimum down-force on the bridge so make sure your tailpiece is set for a similar or slightly shallower break angle at the bridge than at the nut .
    Biddlin ;>)/
     
  19. Tobacco Worm

    Tobacco Worm Well-Known Member

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    Does the G string continue to fret out above the 12th fret? What I'm driving at is as the Col stated, you might have a high fret above the 12th.
    By starting at fret #1 and start fretting notes going up the neck with your amp set as clean as you can. Go up slowly. When you hear a buzz, go up one more. If the buzz goes away, then the fret just behind that finger is at will be a likely customer for some dressing. If, however, it continues to buzz, fret out, sound dull etc. going up the rest of the way, even to last fret, then if you're not an experienced tech or luthier, stop. Find one.

    My bud across the road is a good example of "internet tech training" and he managed to flatten all 22 frets on one of his strats with a 12" file listening to some of the "internet tech training" stuff! It cost him a total re-fret job! If I had charged him, that would have been a $200 dollar lesson in what NOT to do! He now is in training on how to do frets the RIGHT way! This is something you have to really have hands on training to do right. I cannot tell you how many times I had to go in and repair the "repairs" folks have done. It's staggering!

    There's no embarasment involved in this either. If you know, and you really will, that you lack the training or courage to attempt this, then don't. Find a good tech and let him do the work. If he screws it up, then that's on him. If you screw it up, you'll be out a guitar a bit as your tech will have to go in and replace some frets and dress them as well. And it will cost you more in the end too.

    Well, that's my 2 cents worth. :wave:

    And no, the above is not an opinion. Hard facts are what I deal in.
     
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  20. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    My Epi LP has buzzing and dead spots above the 15th fret because it's hard to get up there on a LP so the frets aren't as worn and get in the way. It's not really worth leveling the frets to me though because it's not my main axe.
     

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