Dating my old SG. Appears to be a 67'

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by ChipChallenger, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. ChipChallenger

    ChipChallenger New Member

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    Hey guys! I have bought an older SG and I'm almost certain it's a 67 but it does have a Bigsby. I didn't think that was an option?

    The pots date 66, the serial is barely visible but leads toward a 67.

    Frets are very wide and low, not worn down....without intentionally throwing the term around, maybe the "fretless wonders"

    The inside has the swimming pool routing.

    There are no marks from a previous Vibrato, so the Bigsby has always been there.
    It has not been re-finished.

    Everything is actually all original. The neck PAF is missing it's cover but it is the real PAF.

    Great site! Any help is appreciated! Glad to be in the vintage SG club!
     

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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  2. ChipChallenger

    ChipChallenger New Member

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    Sorry I'm working on resizing the pictures
     
  3. Norton

    Norton Well-Known Member

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    by 1967 the pickups should be pat number pickups and those were phasing out into T tops.... PAF pickups started phasing out around 1962.

    I am NO expert... but detailed shots of the pickups front and back, the route and the control cavity would be good.

    It's a super cool guitar. that's for sure.

    If the Bigsby is stock... that should help date the guitar. Were the Lyre vibes the first to be factory installed on SG's???
     
  4. ChipChallenger

    ChipChallenger New Member

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    I took some bad pics of the pickups when I put new strings on. The Bigsby is quite the mystery. I haven't seen any other 67 with one. I was wondering if maybe it's a late 66 or early 68, but has a 67 serial.... IMG-5908.jpg IMG-5907.jpg
     

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  5. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Active Member

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    I can't help much with the identification, but that looks like a really nice instrument. I would play the heck out of it! :dude:
     
  6. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  7. ChipChallenger

    ChipChallenger New Member

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    That’s one fine example of a 65. Geez. I’m almost positive this one is a 67. The serial is a 67, the routing is 67 and the pickguard is 67. What’s strange is the Bigsby and pickups. I’m almost certain they are NOT T tops. Which I think started in 66 or 67. But why would you have a 67 body with 66 pickups and pots.
     
  8. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    It's not uncommon to use leftover pots in the supply bin from the previous year.

    Highly unlikely they kept pots organized by pot codes so that the year on the pot code matches the year of the serial number of the guitar.

    Also keep in mind that the serial number stamps are placed on the headstocks prior to the completion of the guitar build.
     
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  9. ChipChallenger

    ChipChallenger New Member

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    Ahh that makes total sense!! The serial has two 00’s first so maybe it’s one of the first made and they just threw in the PAF’s and pots from 66. That would be great! Now that just leaves the Bigsby.
     
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  10. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    With the Bigsby, it's possible that some were special ordered that way or maybe they did a limited run to test the market.
     
  11. Norton

    Norton Well-Known Member

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    Those are patent number pickups for sure. Not PAF’s.

    The serial numbers for that era can be tricky and identifying features were definitely phased in over time using up parts as the process moved along.

    Pot codes are a good way to establish dates if they are original. The pickup and control route tooling marks and shape help too.

    Plus. The more pics the better! Super cool machine.
     
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  12. chilipeppermaniac

    chilipeppermaniac Well-Known Member

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    I am no expert either, but when did the neck join, tenon get longer like this one?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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  14. ChipChallenger

    ChipChallenger New Member

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    Gotcha. Thanks for the clarifIcation on the PAF. Totally forgot about the “applied”
     
  15. chilipeppermaniac

    chilipeppermaniac Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum too BTW ChipChallenger
     
  16. everdying

    everdying Well-Known Member

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    is there any chance the bigsby is aftermarket?
    cos i believe u can install that bigsby into the holes where the tailpiece was.
     
  17. ChipChallenger

    ChipChallenger New Member

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    It may be possible? This Bigsby is at least as old as the guitar. I have never seen any SG this old with a stop tailpiece.

    I wish I could ask the previous owner, but he passed away in 2012 and I got this from his daughter. She said he had it as long as she knew and thinks it’s all original.
     
  18. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    What tailpiece?

    SG Standards...

    1961-62 had Sideways Vibrola
    1963-71 had Maestro Vibrola

    Never seen a stock original 1961-71 SG Standard with ABR-1 and stop bar tailpiece.

    Apparently this one got a Bigsby from the factory.
    I've never seen one like that before until now.

    Did you not see the link I posted earlier with reference to an original stock 1965 SG Standard with a Bigsby? I found that one for reference purposes to show that these oddities do exist even though many of us may not have seen one in person before.

    That's why I find this forum interesting.
    I discover SG that I have never seen before.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  19. ChipChallenger

    ChipChallenger New Member

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    Another puzzling aspect is that this Bigsby is not perfectly straight/installed. It is slightly tilted with the treble side higher. It’s a very small thing, but it’s there.

    Part of me thinks that is quite odd. Another part just thinks maybe it was made on Friday. I don’t really know what to make of it.
     
  20. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    The Short Vibrola on the 1963 SG Special that I had in the past did not appear to be installed visually perfect either. I think many of these imperfections are due to not having CNC machines available back in the day to drill the holes in the exact same place on each guitar to maintain consistency.

    [​IMG]
     
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