Did/does Gibson ever make SG's with non Gibson bridges / tailpieces?

Bettyboo

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^ Give it up, this is becoming tedious...

Gibson Les Paul Traditional 2016, T - Heritage Cherry Sunburst, Chrome Hardware

160138379-detail3-large.jpg


classic Kluson-style tuners by TonePros

Gibson Les Paul Traditional Solidbody Electric Guitar with Plus Top Features:

  • "Traditional" weight-relieved mahogany body reduces weight while maintaining sustain​
  • Top: Maple plus top​
  • Neck: Mahogany, '50s rounded style​
  • Fingerboard: Rosewood​
  • Pickups: '57 Classic Plus (bridge) and 57' Classic (neck)​
  • Controls: Two volume, two tone, 3-way pickup selector switch​
  • Bridge: Chrome Nashville Tune-0-matic​
  • Tailpiece: Chrome stopbar​
  • Tuners: TonePros Kluson-style​

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPTDpHSCH
 

Gibsg

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They are green, yes .

Not yellow.
 

Gibsg

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Let's be very clear: Gotoh are an OEM, they make many different branded parts, for example: Gotoh, Tonepros, Kluson, Fender, Gibson... It's not a linear relationship; sometimes a company such as Gibson/Fender will pay Gotoh to make parts that have Fender/Gibson stamped on them; sometimes Gotoh will make parts for Tonepros with Tonepros and/or Gotoh on them - these products might be sold in shops as Tonepros products or be put on Gibson guitars as Tonepros product; sometimes, Gotoh make products for Tonepros which have Kluson stamped on them that go onto Gibson guitars! Many other OEMs do the same, and have been doing the same for decades.

Tonepros Kluson tuners for Gibsons (come as standard on some Gibsons); I'm almost certain these are out of a Gotoh Japan factory:

1517c.jpg

https://www.guitar-parts.com/catalog/tonepros-tuner-set-gibson-0

Regardless, most folks agree that Gotoh make excellent products.

Out of interest, I found this link that says Tonepros is a very small company with 1-4 employees. I don't know how true this is, but it'd make sense - they basically rebrand high-end Gotoh products with some modifications, so their business is dealing with companies such as Gibson to sign contracts that bring in high quality components at the right price for Gibson. Knowing that Gibson has a massive corporate portfolio, you wouldn't be surprised if there's a very close ownership/management link too.
http://www.manta.com/c/mm8g8bv/tone-pros



I have seen some people saying that WDMusic own Tonepros, but maybe WDMusic just distributes them?

They appear to own Kluson (probably brought the rights somewhere along the way), they are a major distributor and also manufacture. So, it's a very tangled web indeed...

With a dealer base numbering in the thousands, and literally tens of thousands of satisfied retail customers, WD Music has supplied a number of manufacturers and luthiers including BC Rich, EMG, Mosrite, Fernandes, Pedulla, Ernie Ball/Musicman, Peavey, Schecter, Reverend, G & L, ESP, Heritage, Wilburn Custom Shop, Wishbass, Melobar, RS Guitarworks and many, many others. We also supply parts and accessories to distributors such as Musicians Friend, St. Louis Music, HHI, Musicorp, Kaman, Harris Teller and Stewart MacDonald, to name a few.

Today WD Music is a proud distributor of parts manufactured by Kent Armstrong, Graph Tech, LR Baggs, Wilkinson, Grover, Bigsby, Switchcraft, TKL, Sperzel, Q-Parts, Big Bends, El Dorado , CTS and many others. WD Music maintains our own large manufacturing and distributing center in SW Florida . With the resurrection of Kluson machine heads and Stromberg Jazz Guitars WD Music is moving into our fourth decade proudly carrying on a tradition of quality, service and respect for the legacy of the brands and products we represent.
http://www.manta.com/c/mwzjndp/wd-music-products-inc


1517c.jpg



Gibson tuners are green, not yellow. They are called "green keys" .

Have a look


img_0010.jpg
 

FreeCat

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2001 is the year Gibson switched bridges ABR-1 to Nashville.

If your 2001 SG Special have a Gotoh bridge I think this is not the stock hardware .

Anyway Gotoh hardware is not bad.

Gibsg - if that's true then that would make sense why the guitar I bought and the one in the video came with an ABR from the factory... because when they switched in 2001 maybe it wasn't exactly on January 1st. The guitar I have was built Jan 9th according to the SN and the one on the video also sometime in January. I mentioned earlier the actual bridge on this guitar when I got it last week was a Nashville but sitting on top of ABR thin studs threaded to the top (with no bushings pressed in to the body). So it did come with an ABR from the factory and someone put a Ping Works (PW) Nasheville on it since then.

However, I did a search again and the internet told me that the Nashville bridges were made in the 70's. Did they use the Nashevilles on all other guitars except SG's until 2001? Seems odd. Or maybe only the guitars out of Bozeman (like mine) used the ABR's until 2001? Or maybe one of the builders was on vacation for a week in January and the temp they hired grabbed a bunch of ABR-1 bridges to build SG's? OK... I'm really stretching on that last one :)
 

Raiyn

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Gibsg - if that's true then that would make sense why the guitar I bought and the one in the video came with an ABR from the factory... because when they switched in 2001 maybe it wasn't exactly on January 1st. The guitar I have was built Jan 9th according to the SN and the one on the video also sometime in January. I mentioned earlier the actual bridge on this guitar when I got it last week was a Nashville but sitting on top of ABR thin studs threaded to the top (with no bushings pressed in to the body). So it did come with an ABR from the factory and someone put a Ping Works (PW) Nasheville on it since then.

However, I did a search again and the internet told me that the Nashville bridges were made in the 70's. Did they use the Nashevilles on all other guitars except SG's until 2001? Seems odd. Or maybe only the guitars out of Bozeman (like mine) used the ABR's until 2001? Or maybe one of the builders was on vacation for a week in January and the temp they hired grabbed a bunch of ABR-1 bridges to build SG's? OK... I'm really stretching on that last one :)
Just ignore Gibsg. The rest of us do.
 

FreeCat

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That's it... I'm driving to Bozeman and asking them (about the tailpiece and the bridge)! LOL. I'm actually assuming my guitar was made in Bozeman. the last 3 digits (Rolling Productoin Number) is 333. From what I read Nasheville guitars begin with 500. Or could this have been made in Memphis?
 

thatbastarddon

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Some SG Standards got the "not green" yellowish tuners(mine did)...they're the ones Gibson specs as 18:1 ratio...the green ones were common on the Specials, and such....Gibson listed their specs as 14:1 ratio(snot green).
 

Gibsg

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Gibsg - if that's true then that would make sense why the guitar I bought and the one in the video came with an ABR from the factory... because when they switched in 2001 maybe it wasn't exactly on January 1st. The guitar I have was built Jan 9th according to the SN and the one on the video also sometime in January. I mentioned earlier the actual bridge on this guitar when I got it last week was a Nashville but sitting on top of ABR thin studs threaded to the top (with no bushings pressed in to the body). So it did come with an ABR from the factory and someone put a Ping Works (PW) Nasheville on it since then.

However, I did a search again and the internet told me that the Nashville bridges were made in the 70's. Did they use the Nashevilles on all other guitars except SG's until 2001? Seems odd. Or maybe only the guitars out of Bozeman (like mine) used the ABR's until 2001? Or maybe one of the builders was on vacation for a week in January and the temp they hired grabbed a bunch of ABR-1 bridges to build SG's? OK... I'm really stretching on that last one :)

First Nasshville bridge were made near 1980 and Les Paul was equipped earlier with Nashville . ( May be SG1 too )

For the SG Gibson switched during 2001.

You wrote that the bridge on your 2001 SG Special is a Gotoh ? With ABR studs ?
 

Gibsg

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Some SG Standards got the "not green" yellowish tuners(mine did)...they're the ones Gibson specs as 18:1 ratio...the green ones were common on the Specials, and such....Gibson listed their specs as 14:1 ratio(snot green).

Pictures ?

Ratio is 18:1 , 14:1 is wrong .
 
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Gahr

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Some SG Standards got the "not green" yellowish tuners(mine did)...they're the ones Gibson specs as 18:1 ratio...the green ones were common on the Specials, and such....Gibson listed their specs as 14:1 ratio(snot green).

My 2014 Derek Trucks Signature has "yellow" Kluson Deluxe tuners. My 2009 Faded Special has "green" Gibson Deluxe ones. Is there any difference apart from the color?
 

thatbastarddon

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My 2014 Derek Trucks Signature has "yellow" Kluson Deluxe tuners. My 2009 Faded Special has "green" Gibson Deluxe ones. Is there any difference apart from the color?
Gear ratio. Green on mine are 14:1. Yellow on mine are 18:1.
Can I tell the difference? Yes.
Does it bother me at all? No.
Do they affect performance? Meh, not really, to me...the green ones are a shade more "touchy".
 

thatbastarddon

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Pictures ?

Ratio is 18:1 , 14:1 is wrong .
....aaaand finally an example from my collection:

image.jpeg

Left- yellow - 2012 SG Standard P-90 - original factory tuners. Yes, I cracked the seal on the Gibson factory box myself. It was a condition of purchase from the big box online seller.(these match the Kluson lockers that I put on my 2011 P-90 60's Trib. Perfectly.)

Right- snot green - original factory tuners pulled from my 2011 SG Classic 60's Tribute whatever you call it... They now reside on my Crescent Moon SG Special Faded(which would have had the same type as original equipment). I have another set just like them on my 2006 LP Faded Studio.

The End.
 

Gibsg

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Il love those Gibson Green Keys :thumb:


image-jpeg.21881
 

thatbastarddon

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Pictures ?

Ratio is 18:1 , 14:1 is wrong .

What? No, "oops, sorry....it was me that was wrong." Or maybe, "perhaps I should have researched before making such a definitive statement." If you were to go to the Gibson site now, and check every current model spec. before your previous statement to me, perhaps you would have made a different choice in statement.... Don't get me wrong, I am human, and have made an erroneous statement on this site....but, when called out, I was able to admit it to the person that did the calling...and I had not personally told someone else that they were wrong... I just made an incorrect statement without thinking it through.
You asked for proof. I provided it readily. You fail. Again.
Thank you, fellow human.


To the OP...sorry.
It does look as though Gibson does have a track record of having parts re-branded for them to use on production models....case in point -aforementioned tuners-tonepros on occasion. Most of the time you would not find the manufacturer's name/logo on said parts though.
Bridges, and tailpieces are easily, quietly, swapped out by owners for reasons only known to them...in the end it may make no difference at all.
Best of luck!
 

FreeCat

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First Nasshville bridge were made near 1980 and Les Paul was equipped earlier with Nashville . ( May be SG1 too )

For the SG Gibson switched during 2001.

You wrote that the bridge on your 2001 SG Special is a Gotoh ? With ABR studs ?

Actually it's only the tailpiece that was a Gotoh. The bridge itself it turns out is a Nasheville TOM from Ping Works (I assume as it has the initials "PW" on it). I'm very sure the PW Nasheville bridge is not original because the guitar has ABR thin studs, no bushings, threaded to the top, and uses thumbwheels. I didn't know what the PW meant until Betty Boo mentioned Ping Works yesterday.

My original question which was "Did/does Gibson ever make SG's with non Gibson bridges / tailpieces?" was just a curiosity because I noticed the tailpiece said Gotoh.

However, shortly after I posted that question I realized that my bridge was not the right bridge for the guitar. That led me to the question about ABR vs Nasheville on a 2001 SG. If what you're saying is right (that they started using Nashevilles sometime in 2001) then that makes sense that a guitar built in January of 2001 would still have come with an ABR. That turned out to be the more important question as I need to buy a new bridge :)
 

FreeCat

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What? No, "oops, sorry....it was me that was wrong." Or maybe, "perhaps I should have researched before making such a definitive statement." If you were to go to the Gibson site now, and check every current model spec. before your previous statement to me, perhaps you would have made a different choice in statement.... Don't get me wrong, I am human, and have made an erroneous statement on this site....but, when called out, I was able to admit it to the person that did the calling...and I had not personally told someone else that they were wrong... I just made an incorrect statement without thinking it through.
You asked for proof. I provided it readily. You fail. Again.
Thank you, fellow human.


To the OP...sorry.
It does look as though Gibson does have a track record of having parts re-branded for them to use on production models....case in point -aforementioned tuners-tonepros on occasion. Most of the time you would not find the manufacturer's name/logo on said parts though.
Bridges, and tailpieces are easily, quietly, swapped out by owners for reasons only known to them...in the end it may make no difference at all.
Best of luck!

Thatbastarddon - it turns out my original question was actually 3 questions in one. I think what you wrote at the bottom summarizes all three of them very well.
 


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