Do the "Jimmy Page Les Paul Replica" enthusiasts know this?

Discussion in 'Other Guitars' started by SG Champagne, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. SG Champagne

    SG Champagne Active Member

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    From 1972 until well after the band disbanded, Mr. Page's Number One Les Paul had a T-Top Humbucker in the bridge position. The original neck PAF was in place, but, the bridge PAF became non-functional and was replaced with a T-Top.

    SO, if one is searching for the "true" Page "tone" you'd need to put a T-Top in the bridge.

    I wonder whether this is widely known or not?
     
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  2. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    I'd say that argues for the PAF being the correct pickup.
     
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  3. Robert Herndon

    Robert Herndon Well-Known Member

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    Many people mistakenly think T-tops/PAF's are "hot" pickups. Most of the aforementioned pickups are 7.7/7.8k - same as the ones in my '68 Gibson SG and same as the 490R/T in my 2016 Gibson"T" Series SG.

    Now, are we going to discuss Page's wiring mods????
     
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  4. SG Champagne

    SG Champagne Active Member

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    "I'd say that argues for the PAF being the correct pickup."


    That's correct, for all of Number One's recordings up to 1972. After 1972, a PAF replica is not the correct pup. A T-Top is correct.

    All of the albums up to and including Led Zep IV used the 1959 PAF. The studio albums after that used the T-Top.

    The Song Remains the Same concerts were in 1973, so, Number One had the T Top in the bridge position.

    I doubt that most could tell the difference by using their ears. It's just an interesting topic to ponder.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
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  5. syscokid

    syscokid Well-Known Member

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    Cool info!
     
  6. SG Champagne

    SG Champagne Active Member

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    I would be very interested in you broaching that topic. I own a single LP which is a 1961 re issue so it is really an SG. And yet, I find these topics very interesting.
     
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  7. Robert Herndon

    Robert Herndon Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] Bad file...
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
  8. Robert Herndon

    Robert Herndon Well-Known Member

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    Better imagery....

    Jimmy-Page-Wiring-Diagram-from-Original-Gibson-USA-Schematic.jpeg
     
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  9. RVA

    RVA Well-Known Member

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    So, underpinning this thread is a consensus that there is a distinct PAF sound? Many argue that the inconsistency of production meant that there was no one PAF sound. I have no opinion on this historical argument, just pointing out its relevance to this topic.
     
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  10. SG Champagne

    SG Champagne Active Member

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    No, I'm not looking for any consensus because I'm not sure that's possible when it comes to something as subjective as what our ears hear. I love history of all kinds, so, I've always wished that we could be sure about historic things such as, exactly how a Roman shield was made or exactly what colors were the helmets on Alexander the Great's army. So I do wish that we could re-issue Jimmy Page's Number One and say, "we have replicated a correct copy of this historic guitar . . . correct in every detail." But, Mr. Page changed things on his Number One so frequently that I wonder whether it is possible to replicate it in every detail.

    The push-pull wirings posted by Mr. Herndon illustrate a MAJOR modification of Number One. I'm not sure that the historical record can tell us exactly when that happened.
     
  11. Robert Herndon

    Robert Herndon Well-Known Member

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    Gibson started machine winding pickups in 1966, so there would be more consistency in pickups produced after that....
     
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  12. SG Champagne

    SG Champagne Active Member

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    The proof that your argument is correct is the fact that Gibson offers PAF-Buckers numbers 1, 2 and 3 to cover the range of under to over wound original PAFs because of the inconsistency of the originals that you mention.
     
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  13. Robert Herndon

    Robert Herndon Well-Known Member

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    Oddly, I have played many vintage Gibson's from the hand wound era and while some did have a certain sweetness, I didn't notice huge differences in the tone...
     
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  14. Robert Herndon

    Robert Herndon Well-Known Member

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    Now, did you know that Page obtained his "Number One" from Joe Walsh in 1969 for $1,200.00???

    Perhaps Walsh has something to do with the electronics???
     
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  15. frankd

    frankd Well-Known Member

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    Did you know the neck had been scalloped buy a luthier to slim it down from its original
    B B bat fat neck . And that there are also two toggle switches under the pick guard that
    Jimmy never has explained nor are they included in that wiring sceme.
     
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  16. frankd

    frankd Well-Known Member

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    And I have also heard that the Locking tuners where Sperzels and not grovers.
     
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  17. Robert Herndon

    Robert Herndon Well-Known Member

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    I'd wager 5 quid that Mr. Page is likely to see this post, while enjoying his afternoon tea and lady biscuits, and have a good laugh at us all...
     
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  18. frankd

    frankd Well-Known Member

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    Not me he never laughs at me he knows how serious I am and where I'm from and what a loyal fan I have been.
    Texas LOL okay maybe behind my back.
     
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  19. SG Champagne

    SG Champagne Active Member

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    Yes, that's a great story. Joe Walsh had two LPs from that year and kept the best one. The other one he gave to Page. Joe Walsh says that he wanted to recover his expenses for traveling to present the guitar. I don't think he charged much of anything for the guitar. The guitar he gave to Page was not purely stock but I can't recall the mods that he made. That info is on the internet.
     
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  20. SG Champagne

    SG Champagne Active Member

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    He would find the conversation quite enlightening. Remember my references to the shields of the Roman Army and the helmets of the army of Alexander the Great. The war shield and the war helmet were everyday common tools for those ancient warriors who used them. Do you suppose that the average Roman soldier knew exactly how his State-issue shield was made and what is it made from? Probably not. He had no interest in the shield other than its efficacy serving him as a SHIELD. Same thing with the helmets. It was just a tool for the soldier in Alexander's army.

    Now then, what do ancient war shields and war helmets have to do with a 1959 Gibson guitar? They are all tools. All three were not regarded as priceless treasures by the soldiers and the guitar players who owned these items -- these tools were just tools. Jimmy Page selected a good fitting instrument for his needs just as an ancient Roman might go through different swords to select the one that feels best in his hand. Neither Mr. Page, Mr. Walsh, nor the ancient warriors ever thought that these TOOLS of theirs would become priceless and rare artifacts that future students would seek to learn about the tool down to practically its last molecule.

    So, yes, I hope that Mr. Page does have time to read these comments. He would surely have a chuckle and agree. AND, I am quite sure that the owners of these tools would have paid more attention to their tools had they known that future students would be so very interested in these items.

    :rofl:
     

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