Epiphone SG Double-Neck - Fake??

[Stormwatchnz]

This turned up on my local trade website. It claims to be an Epiphone SG Double Neck G-1275.

I've always dreamed of owning one, but this looks highly suspicious.

 

[DrBGood]

And why should it be looking highly suspicious ?
If I was you, I'd be at the seller's doorstep right now.

 

[Stormwatchnz]

Well:

1. No serial number on the back of the headstock.
2. Bolted neck? I haven't seen any other photo's of SG's with bolted necks
3. "Gibson" on the truss-rod cover.

But, I'm no expert so I'm asking the internet

 

[plankton]

Looks okay to me.

http://www.epiphonewiki.org/index/SG.php#Doubleneck_Models

 

[DrBGood]

Well:

1. No serial number on the back of the headstock.
2. Bolted neck? I haven't seen any other photo's of SG's with bolted necks
3. "Gibson" on the truss-rod cover.

But, I'm no expert so I'm asking the internet

1. Strange indeed, but it can happen.
2. You probably haven't looked enough.

SG Special



G-310



3. That is a classic old Korean truss rod cover.

 

[Stormwatchnz]

Looks okay to me.

http://www.epiphonewiki.org/index/SG.php#Doubleneck_Models

Thanks, that's exactly why I asked

Still not exactly happy about there not being a Serial Number on the headstock, but I might have a bid on it

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

IS it for sale in NZ? Let us see the ad for it. How much is it selling for ?

Ask to see pics of the controls under the cover, and pics of the backs of the pickups.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

The Bridge posts look funny, like they protrude quite a bit up above the holes in the bridges.
They are unlike the ones I found in pics.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

The lack of serial number kills it for me. Does it have a case?

 

[Stormwatchnz]

The lack of serial number kills it for me. Does it have a case?

Here's the listing:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=3039670874

No case. Currently sitting at $400NZD which is pretty good, but all pots need replacing and the hardware is a bit corroded

 

[plankton]

Seems like a reasonable price. Pots and wiring are cheap. 25 year old hardware is bound to show signs of age. I can't imagine one of those would come up for sale secondhand in NZ very often. It's a shop that's advertising it as an Epiphone, if you were to buy it and discover it's a fake you would have the right to return it for a refund. I say go for it.

 

[DrBGood]

Apart from screws (maybe $2 worth for replacement), I don't see any rust. I'd be hard pressed to find a 25 year old Epiphone without rust on screws. Pots might just need to be cleaned, who knows ?

At that price, it's a steal. They easily go for double that anywhere. It's starting to sound like you're looking for any excuse not to buy it. Don't, if it's going to keep you up at night.

 

[Stormwatchnz]

Apart from screws (maybe $2 worth for replacement), I don't see any rust. I'd be hard pressed to find a 25 year old Epiphone without rust on screws. Pots might just need to be cleaned, who knows ?

At that price, it's a steal. They easily go for double that anywhere. It's starting to sound like you're looking for any excuse not to buy it. Don't, if it's going to keep you up at night.

It's actually the effort I have to go through to collect it if I win the auction. They won't ship, it must be picked up in person. It's currently sitting at $400NZD, that means it'll probably reach $800NZD (possibly more) when it closes tonight. Then I have to get flights, rental car, possibly accomodation, time off work...

I work for an airline so I get cheap flights anyway, but that still pushes the price up to over $1200NZD for a 2nd hand Epiphone that requires quite a bit of work and that's if it is a real Epiphone. A new one, working, with warranties and provenance etc. is around $2000NZD (when they're available).

If I was certain it was genuine I'd be in like a robbers dog. If they delivered I'd get it even if I wasn't certain (depending on how high the auction goes). The seller (Cash Converters) is a pawn broker chain who have a particularly bad reputation as well, just to throw that into the mix.

It's just the convergence of a lot of factors that make it a difficult decision, hence why I want to get as much information as I can.

I'll post the final price tomorrow. I have really appreciated all the help and advice, but, unless it stays ridiculously cheap I probably won't bid on it.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Yeah Bro, I can see the prices adding up and for a questionable provenance, No Serial Number, no pics of pots, wiring, backs of pickups, I would likely pass on it, it I could not get it for like $500 total. All the extra travel etc, with additional costs, make it less desirable of a deal.

Good luck on your decision.

 

[DrBGood]

It's actually the effort I have to go through to collect it if I win the auction. They won't ship, it must be picked up in person. It's currently sitting at $400NZD, that means it'll probably reach $800NZD (possibly more) when it closes tonight. Then I have to get flights, rental car, possibly accomodation, time off work...

I work for an airline so I get cheap flights anyway, but that still pushes the price up to over $1200NZD for a 2nd hand Epiphone that requires quite a bit of work and that's if it is a real Epiphone. A new one, working, with warranties and provenance etc. is around $2000NZD (when they're available).

If I was certain it was genuine I'd be in like a robbers dog. If they delivered I'd get it even if I wasn't certain (depending on how high the auction goes). The seller (Cash Converters) is a pawn broker chain who have a particularly bad reputation as well, just to throw that into the mix.

It's just the convergence of a lot of factors that make it a difficult decision, hence why I want to get as much information as I can.

I'll post the final price tomorrow. I have really appreciated all the help and advice, but, unless it stays ridiculously cheap I probably won't bid on it.

Woah ! Didn't know about the taking possession saga. Kind of crazy. They come up from time to time on the market here. Next time I see one, I'll let you know if this one didn't come through :)

 

[Stormwatchnz]

Woah ! Didn't know about the taking possession saga. Kind of crazy. They come up from time to time on the market here. Next time I see one, I'll let you know if this one didn't come through :)

Thanks. It went for $705. I hope the person who got it gets a lot of enjoyment out of it. As luck would have it, I had a fire-fighter call-out while the auction was closing, so I would have missed out anyway.

I've always wanted to own a double neck SG, the right one will turn up one day. My wife has given me permission to "just buy it" if I see one (Epiphone not Gibson unfortunately).

Thanks for all your help guys it is really appreciated

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Hey brother, Epi is not the only company that makes these 1275 copies.

My buddy who is one helluva player, has a sweet Ibanez version.
Good luck and keep your hopes up.. You will land one. I also have a friend who had his very own 1275 custom built for him. It is a great guitar.

I have some of the greatest guitars I could ever hope for and I spent a good part of my life never even considering wanting some of these.

ES 135 for example, PRS Santana SE Custom, and dig this, a Randy Rhoads RR3 in all black, my 1987 all black SG Special no guard, only 3 controls, you get my point.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

My first SG.


ES 135,


And Finally my 1st Jackson

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Here is one of the Ibby's

https://reverb.com/item/72828-ibanez-built-double-neck-es-1275-set-necks-1980-white

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

http://www.etcetera-music.eu/public/instruments/Ibanez2402/ibanez2402.htm

IBANEZ 2402 "LAWSUIT" 6/12-String Double-neck

In 1986 I bought a nice Ibanez 6/12-string cherry finish doubleneck guitar, shaped like a Gibson SG. This model is called Ibanez 2402, and is an unashamed rip-off of the famous Gibson EDS-1275 doubleneck, used by numerous guitarist including Jimmy Page, Pete Townshend, John McLaughlin, Andy Latimer and Steve Howe just to mention a few. This Ibanez guitar, like all of the 70'ies Ibanez copy guitars, is known as an Ibanez "lawsuit" guitar.

During the 70'ies, Ibanez was the prime example of a japanese copy guitar manufacturer. Ibanez built affordable guitars of good (enough) quality, and thus filled in a gap for aspiring guitarists, not able to cough up the money for the real thing. They also built effects pedals, some of which have even become classics. Eventually Ibanez started to produce their own original models, and became a top brand themselves, which happened at the end of the seventies.

The 2402 model is one of Ibanez finest copy guitars. It came in cherry or white finish. Both are very beautiful instruments. It has a tone quite similar to the original. Especially the 12-string neck is a dead ringer for the Gibson. I had the pleasure to play a real Gibson once, and in my opinion the neck also feels quite similar to the Gibson. The Ibanez is not entirely a copy of the EDS-1275, and in fact the switching arrangement has one advantage over the Gibson. The Gibson has two switches, while the Ibanez has a pickup switch for each neck, and then a third switch, to switch between the necks. This is a very practical arrangement in live situations, and I wonder why Gibson didn't do the same.

The neck switch usually just takes the signals from each neck and route them to the output mono jack. But I had my neck switch rewired to route each neck to it own channel on the output jack, which was then replaced with a stereo jack. This modification can even be done with the factory switch itself, and the mod is 100% reversible. With this mod, I am able to route the 12-string and the 6-string to different amplifiers or effect lines. Using the guitar in the ordinary way only requires a stereo-to-mono lead, while the stereo-routing can be obtaind with a stereo lead to the pedal board.

The infamous "lawsuit" nickname originates from the disagreement between the owners of Gibson guitars and Ibanez japanese owners about the use of logos on the guitar headstocks. The Ibanez guitars were visually very close copies of original Gibsons and Fenders, down to the inlay logos on the headstocks. While a company like Rickenbacker routinely sues companies for copying their signature guitar body shapes, the Gibson lawsuit, giving the Ibanez range its nickname, really was about the use of logos. The issue was eventually settled, as in fact Ibanez had already stopped using Gibson logos prior to the lawsuit. But these guitars will always be known as the lawsuit guitars.

There were speculations that the lawsuit was about the Ibanez guitars being too good copies of the original Gibsons. Gibson obviously must have felt threatened by the increaing market share of the japanese company. But despite being fine guitars, the Ibanez copies are not of the same build quality as Gibsons. They are still fine guitars though, and it is said that the build quality just got better and better during the 70'ies, until Ibanez started to build their own famous original models.

Ibanez announced their decision to stop producing copy guitars in favour of original models sometime in 1976. But even so, they must have continued copying designs for quite a while. The doubleneck that I own can be dated september 1978, based on the serial number, and so must be considered one of the last - and best built - Ibanez lawsuit guitars.

And a fine instrument it is indeed.

Features:

• 12-string neck
• 6-string neck
• Tone and volume knobs for each neck.
• Two pickup switches - one for each neck.
• Neck switch