First SG Project

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by Girl_Rock, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    :io:

    Live sawn? :thumb:
     
  2. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha! No, it's quarter sawn, albeit at a bit of an angle.
     
  3. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    That is not far off quarter sawn. The piece above would have been exactly quartered, but that is close enough for government work.
     
  4. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Ahahahah, ok, so it is normal that there is a little bit of angle, I thought it was too much to be a quarter sawn. Ok, thank you!!!
     
  5. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha, good one.
     
  6. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Simple question: is SGs neck angle 5 degrees or less? I'm searching on the Internet and I'm finding lots of posts which say 4 or 4.5 or 5 (also here). I read that at the beginning it was around 2.5 or 3, but nowadays is higher.

    EDIT:
    I think I'll cut the base that will be glue inside the body with an angle of 5 degrees and then, if necessary (before gluing), I can sand it.
     
  7. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    I think it can vary actually but I'm afraid I'm not sure what the most common ones are.
     
  8. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    Neck angle is whatever it needs to have the correct height at the bridge and the correct action height. Having said that I have never heard of a neck angle on a flat top guitar being close to a Les Paul, which is around 4 1/2 degrees. I've built a few SGs and they are all around 1.5 degrees. But as I said it can be anything you want based on bridge height, action, and neck body join.
    Capture.JPG

    Generally flat guitars that join far up the neck can have a shallower angle. Also an SG has a very thin body so the neck may sit higher than a thicker guitar. This results in a shallower angle again.

    Cheers Peter.
     
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  9. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Thank you for the explanation. So, is it better to measure the height of the bridge before choosing the neck angle? I've always thought the height of the bridge depended on neck angle, to set the right height the strings.


    I agree that it's quite high. I wasn't sure 5 degrees were correct. In fact when I read someone sets SGs neck with this angle, I was a little bit confused, my Gib doesn't seem to have such high neck angle...
    I don't know if the wrong height can make bridge regulation more difficult (or other parts, not only the bridge).
     
  10. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    You set the height of the bridge to match the neck angle - after the guitar is complete. You set the neck angle to put the bridge at the height you would like. Ideally this is as low as possible without bottoming out. If you can just make the strings touch the fretboard at fret 22 before the bridge is bottomed, you have it right.
    Neck angle too low, you will never achieve the action you want. Neck angle too high and the bridge will be unstable, teetering on top of far too long adjusting screws.
     
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  11. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    The wrong angle can make your guitar unplayable. You have to work it out and see how high the bridge will sit to get the best action with some adjustment each way. That is what determines neck angle. I can design a flat 0 degree neck angled guitar and I can design a 10 degree neck angle that will work perfectly but they will be different designs. A Les Paul Standard has about a 4.5 degree neck angle because it has a carved top on top of the body and the angle is carved into the carved top. Rickenbackers have a 0 degree neck angle but the neck is mounted about 5/8" - 3/4" above the body to allow for the top mounted pickups and a higher bridge. It's all about the design.

    Regards Peter.
     
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  12. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Thank you very much, it's clear.

    I've just cut the angle. I don't know with precision the degrees, they should be 2.5°.

    mod_neck_angle_1.jpg
    mod_neck_angle_2.jpg

    The pics aren't the best I could take, sorry. However, I want to cut the area of the body where I insert the neck before sand and adjust the angle. If the pickguard can in some way "disturb" the calibration I'll remove it and put the 'angel wing', the single one I mean. Because the bridge must be on the 'batwing' pickguard and I suppose it can influence the height (correct me if I'm wrong). Or I can install the bridge out of the pickguard, like Epiphone G310, but I don't think this will change the things a lot.

    Shortly I will start the routing plans for the circuit wires.
     
  13. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    That looks good. 2.5 degrees could be fine. That is something you should have worked out in the design stage before you cut wood. I generally cut the mortise first, neck pocket, then cut the neck tenon. You'll know better once you start to mate them together and take measurements. Have you cut the angle into the sides of the neck? Since the body will be parallel to the top you need to angle the edge of the neck.

    Here is a quick picture -
    Capture.JPG

    This is where it will have to match up with the body. It'll be obvious when you try and mount the neck.

    Cheers Peter.
     
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  14. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Ehm... No, but I thought do to it with the body, that needs to be sand in that part. I think it is the same thing...
     
  15. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    Damn good point and an excellent demonstration.
     
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  16. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    It's not a big deal but it will be a lot of sanding. Is the neck mortise flat and the underside of the tenon sloped? You have to pick one. At this point it may be easier to angle the underside of the tenon and the shoulders of the neck, like the picture I showed. I always try and cut the correct angle then just use the sand paper to make the joint really nice and snug.

    Here is what I do to make a nice fit on a neck joint. First thing is to measure the height of the bridge with a straight edge and adjust if required.
    IMG_6650.JPG

    Then once it's good. I slide sandpaper in the joint press tight and pull the sandpaper out. This takes down the high spots and makes a nice tight joint.
    IMG_6639.JPG

    It's really tedious but makes a huge difference to a very good fitting neck joint.
    IMG_6594.JPG
    This will be a similar joint to what you will be doing.

    Cheers Peter.
     
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  17. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    Look at that ! So many little details.
     
  18. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    CNC MACHINE IS OUT OF ORDER!!!

    I need to stop for a while. This was the last thing I did:
    mod_rightside_bottom_chambers.jpg

    I drew a small chamber near the control cavity and one on the top side, that will be hidden by the pickguard, both to make the side lighter and closer to the leftside, which has one big tone chamber. Then there is the wire channel and the ground cavity for the tune 'o matic. The idea for the ground cavity was to solder the wires to the bridge and the stop tailpiece so that it will be easier to insert the wires inside the guitar, because it will be glued and I wasn't sure I could secure them to the two pieces and pass them easily through small channels. So the solution was to create a zone under the tune 'o matic. Its right side has a smooth corner to reduce the bend for the wire, as you can see below.

    mod_rightside_bottom_ground_cavity.jpg

    The picture is quite blur because the camera couldn't focus on this detail well.


    I was working on the top piece of the rightside when one of the motors of the machine stoped suddenly without reason. After a long check with the digital tester my dad thought the problem was the ac/dc adapter (because there wasn't current in the circuit and seemed to be interruped at the beginning) and, opened it, checked and bought another one with the same voltage - current, he repeated the whole check and understood the matter was one of the drivers (for the motors) and change it with one we had there. The current started to pass in the circuit, the motors were moving without problems, so we started to mill and cut. Some minute laters the tool sank and created a hole. Same problem: dead driver. We change it again to know if it was only a problem of pins, but it wasn't.
    So now, we have the CNC machine kaput (dead) and two small holes to repair... I think I'll call the guitar Unlucky.


    P.S.: We have already ordered a board to install over Arduino (without wires) and that can controll a maximum of four motor drivers (we use only three for the X-Y-Z axis), so we hope that removing the old single boards for every driver and the wires, the problem won't persist.
     
  19. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Are you using the TB6600 driver? They are getting a bit of a reputation for failures of various kinds, from missed steps to inserted unwanted steps.
     
  20. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    No, it isn't, that seems to be more complex than the ones we use. Our drivers are smaller and are located on boards, which receive Arduino signals and send them to drivers to pilot the motors, but I cannot tell you the exact name of the model, I should ask my dad... He built the CNC machine.
    However, the real problem is not the driver in itself, but how it burns out, so contacts, board, wires... we want to change the whole circuit with this single board to make it simplier and easier to know where problems are.
     

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