First SG Project

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by Girl_Rock, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    That makes perfect sense. Glad to see you're still working on it!
     
  2. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Thank you for your comment. I have not forgotten your post, I had been really busy for school these months.
    Well, yes, staying at home we have more free time, but I miss my music lessons, we used to play and talk together. Playing alone can become boring for this reason, but we have time for ourself. In fact, this last year I decided to revise some songs I learnt in the past and my guitar techniques, specially for the classical music I have started to play recently.

    About posting something... I am shy ahahah, let's say this. I might upload a video of this guitar, if I finish it and I install pickups, but I saw that there are some problems of "design": the bridge is too high, maybe I should have chosen a different angle for the inclination of the neck... and I am sure this wood will not resist for a long time, because it is elastic and the power that the strings produce can warp it easily, this is what I believe and people tell me.
    I am also considering if it is a good idea to apply oil. I do not know how long I can use it before it starts to have other problems (so if it is better to spend money for oil or put the strings directly and see).
     
  3. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's as bad as you think so keep going. But how can the bridge be too high btw?
     
  4. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Eh, nice question, ask it :rofl:
    I suppose it is due to the inclination of the neck. These days I buy the oil and then we will see.
     
  5. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    I see. But do you perhaps mean that when it's all the way down it is still too high?
     
  6. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Yes, I also cut the pickguard to make it lower... Now I know that the inclination makes a big difference if it is not chosen with attention. Maybe installing a Stratocaster bridge or a wraparound one, the strings can fit better with the fretboard, but that means covering the holes and drilling them again.
     
  7. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    I would say the strings are too low or neck angle too shallow. What is the eight off the top of the body? For an ABR-1 bridge I shoot for about 9/16" below a straight edge off the fret tops. This leaves me about 1/8", or less, under my thumb wheels for adjustments when completely set up. I do this before I set the neck. I have sanded 1/32" off the top of the body one time but I usually want to make sure the height is correct before gluing the neck.

    Cheers Peter.
     
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  8. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    The strings are too high and the angle is too low. There is nothing I can do, it is a problem of contruction, even if I turn the truss rod. However I play it, when I play I do not mind if the strings are higher than the normal position. What afraids me is the possibility of strain the neck or reduce the stability of the tuning or other things due to the height of the strings.
    Thank you for the advice and the description of what you usually do, I follow your projects (art works!).

    Correct me if I understood wrong. The height of body (thickness, about 40mm) + bridge is 56,6 mm. Is this the measurement you mean? Maybe a photo can explain better (I am not a luthier, for this reason I want to know if it is correct).
     
  9. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    If your strings are too high then your neck angle would also be too high. Here is a picture -
    Capture.JPG

    The thickness of the body does not matter. All that matters is the dimension that is noted as "bridge height + adj" above. This can be adjusted by adjusting the neck angle. For a flat top guitar that joins at a high fret location like an SG the angle could be somewhere around 1.5 - 2 degrees. It will vary for other guitars. For instance a Les Paul Standard with a carved top joining at the 16th fret. The angle could be 3.5 - 4 degrees.

    I use a bridge that is about 12mm tall, so I want a little bit of adjustment and when I put a straight edge along the fret tops. Like the center line shown above. I want the dimension to be about 15mm. A little less is fine and a little more is OK too. I always measure this distance before I set the neck and make adjustments if necessary. Here is a pic of me checking the distance with the bridge underneath my straight edge across the fret tops.

    IMG_6650.JPG

    If the bridge is too high. You could put a spacer block underneath to raise it. If it is too low you could recess the bridge in the top of the guitar. It's tricky with a bridge with thumb wheels but if you had a different bridge that you could adjust from the top it would work. If you do not want to do either of those. You could try and take out the neck. What kind of glue did you use to glue in the neck?

    Regards Peter.
     
  10. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Thank you for the very clear explanation.

    So, the bridge is about 16 mm high from the body, which seems fine reading your post... It is really close to the ones that are used by Epiphone for its SGs, so it is not a bridge with thumb wheels. I posted this pic at the begining of the project, it has not good quality, but I think it can help:
    mod_bridge_tune-o-matic.jpg

    About the last question, I used vinylic glue, Axton, with fast drying. I kept it drying under pressure for about two days, if I remember well. Is there a particular way to remove the neck, so I try to avoid to break it? But if it is too risky, I will keep it and for the next guitar I hope I would not repeat the same mistake.

    Thank you again for your post and to all the members who have always give me tips and support.
     
  11. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    Can you post a picture? So far I have understood that the strings are too low, too high, and now you said that the bridge is 16mm, which is fine? I'm not sure what vinylic glue is. Is that PVA glue? seems like it. It should release with heat. The fret board may also release though so I would only do this as a last resort. Please post some pictures.

    This is your first guitar build and you are using pine, correct? I would not reset the neck. If the strings are too high then place the bridge on a base like an archtop. If it is too low then recess the bridge into the body.

    Cheers Peter.
     
  12. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    String height:
    mod_string_height.jpg
    This is only the e string, I stopped here, at the first one, when I saw that it was in the "high" position. I tried to take the picture the better I could, if it is difficult to understand the right measurement, it is 7mm from the fretboard (in the photo it seems 8mm). I do not know if I am worrying for something that does not exist, but is it actually "too high"? I always see the strings closer to the fretboard...

    The bridge:
    mod_bridge_height.jpg

    mod_bridge_height-2.jpg

    Probably yes.

    Fir tree.
     
  13. Silvertone

    Silvertone Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is too high. Strings should be only high enough off the fret tops to not buzz. 1.5 to 2.5mm would be good. It looks like you have already recessed the bridge into the pickguard. So you can recess it more which may be problematic with the stop tail piece. OR you can take out the neck and make a steeper neck angle with a shim. You want to test it as I have shown before gluing in the neck.

    Regards Peter.
     
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  14. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    OK, so I think I will keep it. I remove the neck in the future for an upgrade, changing the wood and materials. I do not want to risk all in the end...
     
  15. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    Well, this is certainly a setback but I wouldn't call it the end of the world. I think you've done an amazing job and think you deserve to have this guitar playable. Actually, this setback might turn out to be a good thing. The fir could turn out later to be too soft and the particular piece you've worked with could turn out not to have been dry enough. Should this be the case and you would have had the right angle, you might have finished it and have the problem turn up later which would have been an even worse bummer.

    So, I'd say remove the neck, shouldn't be too hard, and then either make a new one in mahogany, maple or what have you. If you enjoy the woodworking that should not be a problem either. But look, you've already proven to the world and yourself that you can make a neck so no one would fault you if you just got a new one on say ebay. Never surrender.
     
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  16. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    I know not much shows in the pictures, but it looks like the neck is dead parallel to the top of the body. Is that a fair comment? It does need to be set back at an angle so it heads towards the top of the bridge. It should be possible to lower the bridge to the point where the strings are touching frets all the way along.
     
  17. Girl_Rock

    Girl_Rock Active Member

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    Yes, there is a problem with the angle (neck-body), but I cannot lower the bridge. A solution is that I remove the neck and change its inclination, which is what we have just discussed a few posts before.
     
  18. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Sorry - I missed most of the thread somehow. Perfect answer
     
  19. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    Just do it!
     
  20. GrumpyOldDBA

    GrumpyOldDBA Well-Known Member

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    I admire you for jumping in and getting done what you have accomplished i am scared of trying to make a guitar its crazy complicated! I am better at buying what somebody else made ha ha!

    Keep the guitar think about redoing at some point if ya want but wait 30 years from now you will have that guitar framed on a wall somewhere that would be magnificent!
     

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