GIBSON U.S.A. ? REALLY ? UH, NOT !

[MR D]

I sold it.
IMO vintage guitars are overpriced.
I would rather have 2 or 3 modern second hand guitars that are $1000 each than a single vintage guitar that cost $3000-4000.

View attachment 46137

You are once again, completely spot-on correct, C.B. ! I think that was you, that posted what looks like the PW TM's pic above....I would have bought Sperzels, had I known Kluson and Grovers are not USA made. Took awhile to find the one pic'd above.


Get this, A SET of 6 Ping Works 3X3 Non-Locking TM's , sans the 'Gibson Deluxe' Gear Cover Label, is selling on E-Bay right now for $15.88 NEW. they look like the Old Gibson TM's exactly....

Whatta cheap-skate move by GIBSON U.S.A., the guitar was not cheeep ! Posting a pic of the Guitar just wouldnt happen..

 

[Decadent Dan]

Schaller is still going https://schaller.info/en/machine-heads/

 

[SMWRG]

Today, as I was ordering some Kluson 'Revolution' Locking Tuning Machines from a Custom Guitar shop it was pointed out to me by the shop owner that although Kluson is an American Company that most, if not all, of their products (especially Tuning Machines) are made in Asia...Kluson 'Revolutions', IIRC, being made in South Korea...this kinda made me balk at buying them for my GIBSON U.S.A. made guitar. However, having put them on an SG Standard and being impressed by their ability to stay/hold tune on a correctly set-up guitar, I proceeded with the purchase.

I was then informed by the CUSTOM Guitar shop owner that GIBSON is putting CHINESE TUNING MACHINES on their Guitars !!! I had to say "EXCUSE ME, WHAT ? Could you repeat that ?" I did not quite believe that, BUT as sad as this sounds, it is true.......the 2019 SG 'Original' I purchased has TM's that say 'GIBSON DELUXE' on the T.M enclosures, but they are made by a company in S. Korea called 'PING'. FFS, One reason I bought that guitar was for those T.M.'s classic 'Original' look, yes? AND the outside of the Tuning Machine enclosure case says clearly: 'GIBSON DELUXE', it sure does.

I ask this: IS THIS NOT FRAUD ???? The Tuning Machine is not made by GIBSON USA, NO, ITS NOT !!! The Tuning Machine should actually say 'PING' on it as that is who made it !!! BUT, again, it says 'GIBSON DELUXE' right on it !

I stated to the owner of the Custom Guitar shop that at least I was glad to be buying 'AMERICAN' made Tuning Machines to put on my GIBSON U.S.A. guitar and he said: "Hold on, it gets worse: Kluson's is getting almost all of their of the products manufactured in Asia too, and the 'Revolutions' Locking Tuning Machines are manufactured in South Korea.".I wasn't too surprised but still I wanted to puke.

Having played Gibson U.S.A. guitars almost 100% exclusively my entire adult life I surely feel betrayed that this company would charge me sky-high prices for a guitar, and then have the nerve to put CHINESE Tuning Machines on it and, through omission, lie about it too. FFS !!! and NOT only that, but frikkin LIE about it and also to have the ABSOLUTE BALLS to put 'GIBSON DELUXE' on these Chinese made Tuning Machine enclosures ! WOW, that got me HOPPIN frikkin mad.

So, now the question is begged: What else is GIBSON putting in/on its Guitars and masquerading around in full view of the Guitar buying public and flat-out lying about their guitars being 'Made in the USA'/American ?

WOW.

While I understand your outrage at the questionable labeling, it is a bit much to expect every part of anything built in the USA to contain no parts manufactured overseas. I very much doubt that many US products could survive such an close examination. All Apple products come from China. So much for buy USA. That train left the station many years ago.

I was very surprised a few months ago when in a local guitar shop in Fort Myers Florida, and I asked about Kluson tuners and they told me that they WERE KLUSON. They had bought the company and were manufacturing them overseas. I bought a set of gold locking tuners to go on my Asian built Epiphone SG Custom and they are terrific, as is the guitar itself. I think that I can say this because I owned an original 1961 white Les Paul Custom for 35 years. The Epiphone is closer in feel to that 1961 than you might think, and at a bargain price. Is it different? Yes, but the difference between it and the Gibson 1961 reissues isn't enough to effect its playability, mainly it is in the resale value, which I no longer care about.

 

[Jackson753]

I bought an Epiphone 2014 '56 Les Paul Pro when they came out. It has a really nice neck and it's really well built. The headstock is not the same as the new Epiphones but to be fair I never really think about that. The neck and P90 Pro pickups make me want to play. It's a solid guitar. It wasn't expensive £325 shipped new to the door. I opened it up to look at the wiring and the wires were cloth and it all looked very professional. Seven years later I still have that guitar I also think it's actually better for me that it's not worth lots of money.

The Les Paul Custom that you speak of interests me. I'd also like to get at some point a
Greco Spacey Sounds Thinline Telecaster. These affordable guitars are very appealing. I understand that they are not investments.

 

[Tom Dickinson]

To me this whole 'Made in USA' boils down to patriotism, and the future of our country for the generations to come. It's about keeping jobs here in the US for our children, their children, and onward. How many of you out there lost their job, or got 'down-graded' because of foreign trade? I know I did! And, I'll be forever pissed off because of it! But, Americans are selfish, short-sighted, and collectively oblivious to the damage done! I wouldn't be surprised if the OP drove his Toyota or Honda to the guitar shop, though I bless him for at least having some concept of American loyalty. The concept of a 'Global Market' is being spoon-fed to us, like it or not! But, it is tricky, and it is hard to tell any more. The 'American Steel Corp' is a wholy owned subsidiary of Honda, a Japanese Corp! Does that make Hondas, assembled here in the US, an 'American' car? Well, when the US dollars you spend to buy one turn into Yen to profit Honda in Japan, I say: NO!! But who thinks of that when they buy a Camry or Pathfinder! At least the OP did when he bought his tuners! Thanks for that!

 

[Decadent Dan]

 

[Chuck.S]

Today, as I was ordering some Kluson 'Revolution' Locking Tuning Machines from a Custom Guitar shop it was pointed out to me by the shop owner that although Kluson is an American Company that most, if not all, of their products (especially Tuning Machines) are made in Asia...Kluson 'Revolutions', IIRC, being made in South Korea...this kinda made me balk at buying them for my GIBSON U.S.A. made guitar. However, having put them on an SG Standard and being impressed by their ability to stay/hold tune on a correctly set-up guitar, I proceeded with the purchase.

I was then informed by the CUSTOM Guitar shop owner that GIBSON is putting CHINESE TUNING MACHINES on their Guitars !!! I had to say "EXCUSE ME, WHAT ? Could you repeat that ?" I did not quite believe that, BUT as sad as this sounds, it is true.......the 2019 SG 'Original' I purchased has TM's that say 'GIBSON DELUXE' on the T.M enclosures, but they are made by a company in S. Korea called 'PING'. FFS, One reason I bought that guitar was for those T.M.'s classic 'Original' look, yes? AND the outside of the Tuning Machine enclosure case says clearly: 'GIBSON DELUXE', it sure does.

I ask this: IS THIS NOT FRAUD ???? The Tuning Machine is not made by GIBSON USA, NO, ITS NOT !!! The Tuning Machine should actually say 'PING' on it as that is who made it !!! BUT, again, it says 'GIBSON DELUXE' right on it !

I stated to the owner of the Custom Guitar shop that at least I was glad to be buying 'AMERICAN' made Tuning Machines to put on my GIBSON U.S.A. guitar and he said: "Hold on, it gets worse: Kluson's is getting almost all of their of the products manufactured in Asia too, and the 'Revolutions' Locking Tuning Machines are manufactured in South Korea.".I wasn't too surprised but still I wanted to puke.

Having played Gibson U.S.A. guitars almost 100% exclusively my entire adult life I surely feel betrayed that this company would charge me sky-high prices for a guitar, and then have the nerve to put CHINESE Tuning Machines on it and, through omission, lie about it too. FFS !!! and NOT only that, but frikkin LIE about it and also to have the ABSOLUTE BALLS to put 'GIBSON DELUXE' on these Chinese made Tuning Machine enclosures ! WOW, that got me HOPPIN frikkin mad.

So, now the question is begged: What else is GIBSON putting in/on its Guitars and masquerading around in full view of the Guitar buying public and flat-out lying about their guitars being 'Made in the USA'/American ?

WOW.

Relax pal , the made by Ping thing is old news .. if the tuners are high quality , and do their job , what's the big deal ?

 

[tktk]

I definitely prefer Gotoh tuners over any "Made in USA" ones any day. All of Ping tuners I've used on my Fenders are sloppy and replaced with Gotoh's.
And I know I hate the Gibson Deluxe tuners regardless which manufacturer made them. I had one LP with Schaller made Gibson Deluxes and that's absolutely one of the worst tuners I've ever used.

 

[Decadent Dan]

View attachment 46092

LOL, TNX its worth a shot, when I get a chance. I have a Pixelating app that does that too and works on the right device....most of the time. IDK if it will do the video I mentioned.... Have to dig up the Pings, again, just to make sure I get the 'P.W.' in the picture.

there is another guitar I really would like to own, this Guys CUSTOM. Had to doctor the $#!T out of that picture to save it.

https://www.billyduffy.com/gear/gibson-les-paul-custom-1957-reissue-black-beauty/

 

[papagayo]

The Schaller double ring tuners look better than the Gibson Deluxe but they are made in Germany...

Classic look and feel, gear ratio is 1:16.

 

[Rusty Chops]

To me this whole 'Made in USA' boils down to patriotism, and the future of our country for the generations to come. It's about keeping jobs here in the US for our children, their children, and onward. How many of you out there lost their job, or got 'down-graded' because of foreign trade? I know I did! And, I'll be forever pissed off because of it! But, Americans are selfish, short-sighted, and collectively oblivious to the damage done! I wouldn't be surprised if the OP drove his Toyota or Honda to the guitar shop, though I bless him for at least having some concept of American loyalty. The concept of a 'Global Market' is being spoon-fed to us, like it or not! But, it is tricky, and it is hard to tell any more. The 'American Steel Corp' is a wholy owned subsidiary of Honda, a Japanese Corp! Does that make Hondas, assembled here in the US, an 'American' car? Well, when the US dollars you spend to buy one turn into Yen to profit Honda in Japan, I say: NO!! But who thinks of that when they buy a Camry or Pathfinder! At least the OP did when he bought his tuners! Thanks for that!

I’m with ya.
It’s about voting for jobs with my wallet, as much as possible.
Sure I’m aware, globally. I love everybody.
But my vote is most effective with the money I made here, in skilled labor.

 

[Les537]

My last Made in USA gibson, 2019 '61 stop bar, came with a case Made in Canada. I'm made in Canada too. Outrage avoided.

50 guitars later (mostly GIbson and Epi) Made in USA to me means quality is probably going to be off, but it will sound great thanks to the wood (not so much hardware as they started using steel instead of brass in the bridge). My 97 LP has 6 grover tuners and none of them are straight with each other, however it's the best sounding guitar I've ever played. Magic wood + old school direct screw ABR with wire.

My 2018 SG special came with gibson deluxe tuners and 2 of them came non-functional right out of the box. I kept the guitar because it plays better than any other guitar I've owned and put those revolution tuners on. They are many times improved over gibson deluxe garbage - except for having a thick pole which you can notice on older, thinner heads as a bit of an eye sore. They look just fine on modern, wider heads.

I don't mind supporting SK, a free country. I absolutely hate supporting communist wastelands like China that love to produce fakes and enslave populations. Live free or die.

 

[donepearce]

I'd ease up on the slavery talk if I were you. Yours is the only country whose constitution has failed to abolish it.

 

[papagayo]

My last Made in USA gibson, 2019 '61 stop bar, came with a case Made in Canada. I'm made in Canada too. Outrage avoided.

50 guitars later (mostly GIbson and Epi) Made in USA to me means quality is probably going to be off, but it will sound great thanks to the wood (not so much hardware as they started using steel instead of brass in the bridge). My 97 LP has 6 grover tuners and none of them are straight with each other, however it's the best sounding guitar I've ever played. Magic wood + old school direct screw ABR with wire.

My 2018 SG special came with gibson deluxe tuners and 2 of them came non-functional right out of the box. I kept the guitar because it plays better than any other guitar I've owned and put those revolution tuners on. They are many times improved over gibson deluxe garbage - except for having a thick pole which you can notice on older, thinner heads as a bit of an eye sore. They look just fine on modern, wider heads.

I don't mind supporting SK, a free country. I absolutely hate supporting communist wastelands like China that love to produce fakes and enslave populations. Live free or die.

100% agree, the KLUSON Revolution are awesome tuners, a great upgrade

 

[Go Nigel Go]

I'd ease up on the slavery talk if I were you. Yours is the only country whose constitution has failed to abolish it.

Certain to be a controversial post, and not specifically true, the 13th amendment to the US constitution did abolish the institution of slavery in 1865, but like with most things in history things are far more complicated than any single point. There are many forms of slavery, and many forms of coercion which do not involve overt force. Anyone who thinks they are truly "free" is either in an extremely rare and privileged position of wealth and power, is not paying attention, or is not being totally honest with themselves.

When the word "patriotism" starts getting bandied about, I start paying extra close attention because SOMEBODY is about to get forked. To really get deep into these issues would be beyond the scope of this forum, and would take years along with thousands of pages of calm rational discussion (which is almost certain not to happen, so it would likely take longer). I would even argue that the full story is probably not known by any single individual, certainly not me.

If you just need a good set of tuners however, there are plenty of options.

 

[donepearce]

Look again. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
See that word "except"? That means slavery has not been abolished.

 

[Go Nigel Go]

Which is why I say it is complicated. The most common concept of "slavery" where humans are bought and sold as property WAS abolished in 1865. As I said there are many other forms of slavery which are not covered, and I would argue that slavery still exists in many forms world wide. I would love to sit down with you over a few beers and discuss some of this in a comfortable pub, my experience with you here has been that you are a thoughtful, and pretty bright individual, if sometimes a bit prickly. It will take way too much of my time to try and do it on the internet. It is a very inefficient way to try and communicate complex thoughts and very prone to furthering conflict as opposed to deeper understanding.

 

[donepearce]

This is an interesting watch. Ignore the rant against a couple of UK comedians at the start - unless you are familiar with Frankie Boyle and Charlie Brooker.

 

[donepearce]

Was going to add. Slavery is still thriving in many places although strictly illegal. Virtually all manual labour in the Arab Gulf states is performed by slaves from India and the Philippines. But officially, there is no slavery.

 

[MR D]

To me this whole 'Made in USA' boils down to patriotism, and the future of our country for the generations to come. It's about keeping jobs here in the US for our children, their children, and onward. How many of you out there lost their job, or got 'down-graded' because of foreign trade? I know I did! And, I'll be forever pissed off because of it! But, Americans are selfish, short-sighted, and collectively oblivious to the damage done! I wouldn't be surprised if the OP drove his Toyota or Honda to the guitar shop, though I bless him for at least having some concept of American loyalty. The concept of a 'Global Market' is being spoon-fed to us, like it or not! But, it is tricky, and it is hard to tell any more. The 'American Steel Corp' is a wholy owned subsidiary of Honda, a Japanese Corp! Does that make Hondas, assembled here in the US, an 'American' car? Well, when the US dollars you spend to buy one turn into Yen to profit Honda in Japan, I say: NO!! But who thinks of that when they buy a Camry or Pathfinder! At least the OP did when he bought his tuners! Thanks for that!

My pleasure, u kno, I was hoping this would not get political.And I did not start the thread because of politics...I find it deceptive advertising on Gibson USA's part and that was my original point...BUT now that it has gone political...What kind of country signs into law; Laws that allow the the companies in that country, TO circumvent protectIve tarrifs (via FTA's) for their countries workers and then those companies give their own citizens jobs to citizens in another country ? and that is Virtually all of their own citizens jobs going to citizens in another country? Who the **** does that? and, more importantly, why did they get away with it ?
Believe me Bro, I HEAR YOU !
When I bought the SG 'Original' I seriously did not expect to find South Korean Tuning Machines on it, I certainly thought it would have good ole USA made Grovers or Kluson's. I had no idea that it had foreign TM's (apparently cheep-a$$ ones too !) until the day I started this thread.