Guess I should have started here-Hi!

Discussion in 'Welcome Wagon' started by tony1852, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    No assumptions here - there is no basis to claim that Gibson USA are 'hand made' - they come off a production line, just like other mass produced guitars. Of course, some guitars are entirely hand made - which is why you need to be careful how you use the term. To suggest there's something special about 'American hand made guitars' whilst talking about Gibson USA models is just way off the mark. From the CNC machine to the PLEK machine, there's an awful lot of machinery, and it's an assembly line mass produced guitar in the end. No need to assume anything about that.

    So, how does 'supporting local economies here in the US' translate into some kind of 'magical' quality? These seem to be two very different things; the claim that there's some thing 'magical' about an instrument because it's American, is as false as the claim that Gibson USA guitars are hand made. And remember, on this international forum, many of us are NOT supporting a local economy by buying USA made guitars, so it's kind of irrelevant to me.

    Whoever led you to believe that has made far too many generalisations - which Gibson? Compared to which non-Gibson? There's a lot of guitars in the world... A Custom Shop SG might be made of one piece - but few (if any) current Gibson USA SGs are made of one piece - most are multiple pieces glued together.

    Well, don't worry, most Gibson USA SGs are made of two, three, or more pieces, and, as a bonus, the SG has a thin body, so a smaller piece of wood :)

    Assume all you want... but what 'circumstances'? Those 'expensive ass' Gibson guitars are expensive (in large part) because you're paying for American labour - even with the level of mechanisation there's still a lot of people employed on the line - and like-for-like you're paying for that. Plus, you're paying for the brand. Of course, you'd hope that a Squier might have inferior parts to a Gibson (it's not like-for-like), but it also has a much cheaper construction (in labour terms), Leo Fender made sure of that. The actual difference in wood cost/quality is probably one of the smallest distinctions.

    Please, forget the pop-neuroscience! The sex-drive is testosterone driven, not Dopamine, which gets triggered by all sorts of things, including buying guitars - if you're into guitars. And yes, brand is (largely) irrelevant - so why bring it up here, in the context of Gibsons?

    Finally, I'll chill when I want, not when you tell me to. And this is a public forum, I'll respond as I chose to do. You want to have a private conversation with someone else, don't post in a public forum! :rolleyes:
     
  2. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    I dont think I was very assertive or rude. I just stated my thoughts, even if they do seem i correct or false to you. I know this is a forum but im getting a bad impression right now like you are frustrated with me. Honestly that wasnt my intention in posting. I just go by what i know and think. If im not certain i try to say that. Sorry if you think I'm misleading people, definitely not what I'm trying to do here.
     
  3. AngelDeVille

    AngelDeVille Well-Known Member

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    Mine says “made in China”
     
  4. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    Ahh .. here it is. That's not magic, it's called patriotism. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make the sound coming out of the instrument any better.
     
  5. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    Honestly not patriotism. Isnt what I meant. I cant suggest that I'd rateher have them made in. America than another country without being a patriot?

    Maybe I'm wrong but I think its a positive thing. Its not a selling point for me but I'm sure it is for some people. I wasnt saying that being american made it magical. What makes it magical is what it is, an instrument, a tool to create vibrations based on the actions of the user. MUSIC IS THE MAGIC. Did someone think i meant Gibsons were magical??? I meant that any instrument is magical and thats what i said. I did not at all state that they were made without machines but there is definitely much to do by hand. The attraction to music and instruments must be more than a compulsive disorder, its such a pleasurable thing to make music I dont know what to relate it to besides a near sexual thing. I dont see what the problem is, i wasnt making any wild accusations!

    "To speak to the heart
    And give the great gift
    Words, Power, Trance" -Morrison

    Music is the magic. Sheesh. I still don't see what everyone is up in arms about.
     
  6. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    Lord help me, will you guys read what i really posted please. I AM SO SORRY OP! Hate to F up your thread. It was an accident.
    Also, Im aware few guitars are made of one solid peice of wood. Im also aware that Gibsons commonly use 2+ pieces. 2 on average isnt many. To always have 3-4+ I think is. What a nightmare. This isnt even the most contentious thing I've posted...
     
  7. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    TBH, it's not entirely clear what you were saying about multi-piece guitar construction, or why you were saying it. It seemed to be related, in some way, to your original comment "Dont tell me there isnt anything magical about an American hamdmade instrument."

    This is what you said:
    I'm unsure how this relates to your original response, in italics above. The most expensive vintage Gibsons have at least three part construction, having a book matched maple cap. I think it's a fallacy that Gibson 'use less glue and more solid wood' - but it does depend who you're comparing them to. And, even if they did, I'm not sure it makes the slightest difference, or could possibly lend them a magical quality. Presumably Gibson don't think so either, or they'd never have glued together all the bits of wood to create these:
    [​IMG]

    There's nothing wrong with gluing bits of wood together - though many question the aesthetics of the result above. So much glue in there it would probably neigh if you gave it a sugar cube.
     
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  8. Layne Matz

    Layne Matz Well-Known Member

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    I was noting the positive factors, while these factors could apply to gibsons they could very well apply to many other guitar companies.
    - Handmade is a positive, its not 100% done by a machine but i doubt any guitar is. Maybe those carbon fiber acoustics. In my mind the less machines the better.

    -I think it being made here in America is more positive than it being made in any other country. Country of origin would not be a selling point for me personally. By paying for these american assembled guitars isnt more of the money going to americans and thus going back into local economies? Im asking.
    I have a freind of a friend who works at Gibson Nashville, not sure what he does there but i know he gets paid pretty well. In conversation people have said "he builds guitars at the Gibson Factory".

    Im just going by what i think, know, and assume.

    - what makes it magical is the fact that its a musical instrument. I guess i should have been very clear in explaining every single thing i said. Or worded it all better. Please stop implying that I stated that anything else was 'magical' other than the instruments ability to produce music and pleasurable vibrations.

    As for the stating they use less glue, I guess it was based on assumption but I thought they did use less pieces and glue than they would on an Epiphone. I think I recall a whole back being told how my Epi G400 had more pieces than a gibson would so this probabky led me to believe they used less. I did not mean that the glue gave any magical qualities.

    Im not by any means promoting anything. I onky said anything about MAGIC in the first place becauae a precious poster stated that gibsons were just guitars, no magic involved.

    I was expressing how i think any instrument can be magical(except maybe a plastic kazoo) and i noted some positive factors that i see in Gibson. I dont know what other guitar manufacturers still have factories here in the US with American workers. Im not really a patriot but I think its probably more beneficial that money stays and supports with local economies versus foriegn economies. I know a lot of people will know more than I do. Im just trying to clarify at this point.

    Did i really do something wrong here?
     
  9. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    That makes it musical, not magical. And if you see guitars as ‘magical’ in some way, then all guitars are magical. Your response was not that ‘all guitars are magical’ therefore Gibsons must be – but instead it was about American guitars (Gibson, not Epiphone, in the context of this thread). Did you really mean to say that Epiphones are ‘magical’ when you talked about American Handmade instruments? It certainly wasn’t clear!



    Let’s be honest, a talented musician can make a Squier strat sound truly amazing (magical, if you wish), whilst many of us can make a Gibson ‘57 Les Paul sound truly dreadful. The magic is NOT in the instrument, which does nothing on it’s own, it’s in the player. If you’re really not clear about that, just take some time to think about it.



    Huh? You see it as positive, but not a selling point? Oh well… Bear in mind, this is an entirely American-centric point of view. I literally care as much about American workers as I do about Korean ones, or Indonesian ones. Perhaps I care a bit more about Indonesian ones, after all, Indonesians did experience genocide in living memory. Compared to workers in most of the world, American workers have had a pretty easy time for the last 100 years or so. Before you get too upset about this, remember, American is still a country that many people would aspire to move to (hey, why not build a wall?) – so just how much sympathy do American workers need right now?



    I’m really not trying to give you a hard time here, but you did respond to the claim that “Gibson guitars are just guitars. No magic involved.”By saying “Come on man, thats a bold statement. Id say its almost arrogant. Dont tell me there isnt anything magical about an American hamdmade instrument.”


    Well, personally, I’d agree with the comment that there isn’t anything ‘magical’ about a Gibson. Or an American instrument. Or even a handmade one. Putting ‘almost’ before arrogance doesn’t negate it – just think how it would feel if I’d called your posts ‘almost stupid’ or ‘almost naïve’ or ‘almost ignorant’, (N.B. Even though I haven’t).
     
  10. jtees4

    jtees4 Well-Known Member

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    You guys seem to be saying that an American made Gibson is not better than any import....because it doesn't affect tone.?!? Of course it does, if you are in the USA and play a USA made guitar the tone is stronger because it doesn't have to travel as far. Geez....you guys are so thick headed :cheers:
     
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  11. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Ah ha! Lightbulb moment - A Gibson SG's tone increases the closer you are to the USA, and likewise, the neck dive increases the further you go from the USA. Suddenly it all makes sense....... I think. :hmm:
     
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  12. plankton

    plankton Well-Known Member

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    Those long cable runs to Asia are a tone killer, lots of treble loss.

    I'm only in Australia so it's not as bad and I can get away with playing an Epiphone, as long as I have a buffered boost on my board.
     
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