It’s got a tailpiece now

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by Pierce Murphy, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    I get how tuning works.
    Not a fan of tuners with needles.
    They jump around too much.

    I prefer these...

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    The only time I've found needles to jump around is when a guitar needs nut work. The small jumps are a dead giveaway even when you can't feel anything.
     
  3. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

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    I always wanted a strobe tuner, never could justify the cost but I want one anyways. A modern battery powered tuner (whether needle/LED/phone app or whatever) is more than enough for me. I also still have my old pitch pipe that I started out with back in the day. For playing shows I use a Boss TU-2 tuner pedal, can't beat it for convenience in a crowded noisy environment. The MOST important thing is for everyone to use a common reference pitch for tuning. I have seen a few people struggle mightily with their tuner, when for whatever reason the ensemble was simply not using a "standard 440 hz A" pitch. If I walk into a session already in progress, I always get a reference pitch from the group first, not from my tuner. Trust your ears.

    Bottom line is just tune the damned thing! :naughty:

    As for the guitar that started the thread, it is an interesting piece. I would love to check it out and play it for myself before making any snap judgements. I don't have any doubt the owner likes it and finds it an improvement, even if it is subjective and not everyone's cup of tea. For what it's worth, I have never had any trouble getting whatever sound I needed out of any of my guitars. The Amp is usually more responsible for limiting/defining my sonic options than the guitar in my experience, but hey, you need to have total confidence in every part of your instrument or your performance can suffer. That insignificant detail can become a nagging doubt at one of those critical junctures in a performance where thing start to go sideways and the show could "go either way". You should never be thinking about whether you have the right pickups or whatever when you have music to be played. When it is show time, nobody else gives two $h!ts which pickups you have or what your nut is made of.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  4. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    Never trust your ears. The pitch you hear is totally dependent on how loud it is. Louder will sound higher. Trust an electronic tuner.
     
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  5. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

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    If you want to be objectively "right" and f**k all else, use a tuner in all circumstances. If you want to sound good to the ear, trust your ears. For performance purposes, it is best all around for everyone to tune to a standard reference pitch before soundcheck, ensure all tuners are calibrated for the chosen standard at that time, and then you can usually trust the convenience of said tuner throughout the session. If my ear says I am not in tune, I want to know the reason why and fix it. I never want to be "that guy" who stubbornly plays a whole show out of tune with the ensemble just because he got the "green light" from a machine that has no sense of aesthetic judgement.
     
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  6. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    No. Just no. This is the way to guarantee that everybody is going to be a bit off. Everybody must tune to a standard tuner. That is the only way to play on pitch. There is no aesthetic judgement in tuning. Correct is correct. I used to play in the 1960s. I prided myself on how well I could tune. Then when I listened back to the occasional band recording I could have cried in shame. If electronic tuners had been around then I would have grabbed one with both hands and made everybody in the band use it.
     
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  7. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

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    Not to hijack the thread and belabor a point I am not convinced we are in all that much disagreement on, standards change. If you tune perfectly to pitch with the default settings on a modern tuner, and then drop into a hard core baroque ensemble meticulously tuned to baroque standard, you will be wrong. Baroque standard for example is A 415hz, not A 440 hz. Your ears will tell you as much the minute you start playing if you choose to listen to it.

    When I lived in the Appalachian mountains I would occasionally show up at some of the impromptu folk jams that happened around the county. Everybody was in tune relative to each other, but the standard could have been a 60 year old pitch pipe that had drifted with age, or the organizer's fiddle that had drifted due to a temperature change. Whatever it was, they weren't in 440 A. So do you interrupt the proceedings and force 10 people to tune to your newfangled gadget, or ask "Charlie" to give you an E and spend 20 seconds to match the group? Just a couple of random examples, but my point is, "standards" can also be relative, and if you are the one who is off your ears will tell you before your tuner.

    For most things, I tend to default to A 440 (like a lot of other folks), but before you do that you had better make sure everyone is on the same standard. Modern tuners are a great invention, and used properly are very accurate and a great time saver. I use them all the time. There are legitimate reasons however to use non-standard reference pitches, and a good modern tuner can be calibrated to different reference pitches. It just doesn't know when it is appropriate to use something different. That it up to you, and all of the ears in the room will know it instantly if you are the one who's measuring stick is different.
     
  8. An Abiding Dude

    An Abiding Dude Active Member

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    I got one of those Boss TU-3S, always on, half the pedalboard footprint. Works for me.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite happy with these.
    download.jpg 1376558220_IMG_332234.jpg
     
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  10. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    All true, but a bit of a red herring. Whatever your chosen "A" pitch, everybody needs to be at it - not just somewhere near it. In a baroque ensemble, tuning by ear is possible because everyone is at a similar low volume level, so level-driven pitch shift is not an issue. For any kind of rock group putting tuner in a lead and leaving it there, or having a set of Robos on the guitar is a trivial matter of tine expense. Any member of the group can mute briefly mid-song and bring a string back into line without having to hear it (or the audience having to hear it), and there is no interruption. The idea of interrupting proceedings and "forcing" ten people to tune to your gadget is just ridiculous nonsense. You walk out onto the stage all perfectly in tune and continue that way with essentially zero interruptions. The alternative is well known.
    Hey Jim - you're out of tune.
    No I'm not
    Yes you are - the G is flat.
    Are you sure
    Yes
    OK. Gimme a G
    OK
    Up a bit
    Too far. Down a bit
    That's better

    All very entertaining, I'm sure.
     
  11. MR D

    MR D Active Member

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    H
    #OLY $#!t C.B., you own that ? There I was thinkin I'm the $#!T w/my Dip-Stick Peterson Clip-on Strobe-Tuner, FFS ! it does work though.....for $30 the TC Electronics Uni-Tune was/is a good strobe clip on tuner as well...till they, of course, discontinued it. Both work but that one u got there, DANG !!! Looks like it belongs in a University Laboratory. W.A.M., R U a Professor of Music C.B. ?
     
  12. MR D

    MR D Active Member

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    DUDE, big THANKS for the HEAD's UP about dealing with GIBSON directly. Got a Flying V '70's Tribute (AWESOME), NO TAX Free Shipping....Axe in hand in 3 days..... too bad I waited one day too long to beat the new price hike, but life in the big city, yes?
    N E Way, TNX again as I'd never even considered dealing w/GIBSON directly, fewer hands on the axe means fewer dings & **** ups in general...not to mention MONEY !!! DRINKS N SHRUBBERY on me if ever you find yourself in Mid Town Manhattan w/some time !. SHOUT HERE !
    BTW IDK how to message some1 on this site or if its even an option.....so I was waiting to see you comment.
     
  13. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

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    Precisely what my "Red Herring" has been saying all along...

    Agreed... That is exactly how and why I do it that way whenever possible.

    In my real world example, the issue was not nonsense at all. I walked into the room verifyably and objectively in tune (A 440 hz). The group was not. They were all in tune relative to whatever they used for their standard, so I simply snagged a single pitch (a guitar low E for convenience) and did a quick relative tuning of my instrument, and joined them. If I wanted to be a "440 A-hole", I could have whipped out my tuner and "whitewashed the savages" which would have made me about as popular as smallpox. Besides that it was totally unnecessary, as everyone sounded great tuning by ear.

    Except Jim...
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  14. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    This is something that can happen when you have to deal with a bunch of amateurs. You have no choice but to tune by ear and hope the rest of the idiots have managed to get somewhere close.
     
  15. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

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    Idiots were rare (and didn't last long). Even the amateurs usually had the basic skill necessary to relative tune their instrument to a pitch by ear if necessary, and many were quite exceptional musicians. I'm just going to leave it at that.
     
  16. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    When a bunch of musicians tune to relative pitch, one of them has to be the reference. There should have been at least one person among the group prepared to shout - Hey, Jim (yes, it's Jim again), if we are going to tune to you, can you at least tune to the right pitch?
     
  17. smitty_p

    smitty_p Well-Known Member

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    Ed R likes this.
  18. skelt101

    skelt101 Well-Known Member

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    Hard to believe this thread was originally about @Pierce Murphy adding a trapeze tailpiece to his SG...
     
  19. donepearce

    donepearce Well-Known Member

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    That was dealt with satisfactorily in about four posts. We've moved on - threads always become more interesting as the original topic is left behind.
     
  20. An Abiding Dude

    An Abiding Dude Active Member

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    Glad to spread a little knowledge and congrats on your new axe, D. I'll take you up on that offer if I ever get out of Vegas.
     

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