Jim Crow has not left the building

deMelo

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Down here they even ask you to state your sexual preference. For social inclusion's sake, allegedly.

How about that?
 

Biddlin

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How about that?
Yeah, I've heard of that. Here's the point that possibly well intention-ed folk seem to be missing:
Law enforcement should be about enforcing the laws and protecting people, not social engineering and most certainly not twisting arms for the sci-fi church of space monkey believers.
 

PermissionToLand

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You're wrong on several points. The claim that black people are arrested disproportionately is a familiar talking point that fails when examined critically. It's often paired with other false claims, for example that whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates while blacks are arrested more for it (false--this claim is based on self-reported drug use; studies that involve actual drug testing find higher rates of use among blacks). You hear a version in the famous "driving while black" hoax that claims blacks are pulled over more often (false--a massive study by the New Jersey Highway Patrol found that blacks speed at higher rates than whites). It's likewise with the claim that blacks are sentences more harshly than whites for the same crime (false--blacks come into the system with more prior convictions on average than whites, which influences the sentences they receive).

To your points about "gentrification," many people in those communities benefit. For example there are black homeowners who are trapped in an environment of poverty and crime because they cannot sell their houses at a decent price since nobody wants to buy into those neighborhoods. Or municipal governments that need the tax revenue and economic boost that new constuctions and new arrivals to the neighborhood create. The opposition to "gentrification" seems to me to be driven largely by tribalism and concerns of "turf." Is the status quo really better in places like Chicago, Baltimore, St. Louis, DC, etc. etc. etc.

You mention the economic hardship caused among black communities by masses of people moving into cities like Nashville, and competing for jobs. You are not wrong about that. The mass influx of unskilled and largely illegal immigrants into the country (200,000 family units arrived at our borders last month alone--double last year's rate) has been devastating for low skilled workers and for blacks especially. Why then do blacks vote for a party that now embraces open borders?

I can't help but notice you didn't cite any sources, you just insist that the disproportionate arrests are not true.

The one source you do cite is the New Jersey State Police. Not a scientific research organization but the very institution facing the claims of racial profiling. That you do not see the conflict of interest here is ... distressing, to say the least.

Not only that, the NJSP study was DEBUNKED:

https://watermark.silverchair.com/m...eDtdhM5-uQxK3OSBQkAFQwEZJ4dtdmZUGvSJpJfdbvV58

Your claim about sentencing disparity being due to priors is also false:

"We find that the majority of the disparity between black and white sentences can be explained by differences in legally permitted characteristics, in particular, the arrest offense and the defendant’s criminal history. Black arrestees are also disproportionately concentrated in federal districts that have higher sentences in general. Yet even after we control for these and other prior characteristics, an unexplained black-white sentence disparity of approximately 9 percent remains in our main sample. The disparity is nearly 13 percent in a broader sample that includes drug cases."

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles

Marginally increased tax revenue does not help a family who can no longer afford to live. And your example of a family looking to sell is an outlier. The vast majority of people in these towns are not trying to sell their homes.

Since you were so utterly incorrect about everything else and have not replied to Layne's rebuttal anyway, you don't deserve a response to your last fear mongering point on immigration.

QED

Id be willing to cite some sources and try to address every point you brought up but I'm not willing to get banned over this. I disagree and I beleive statistically you will find that the numbers do not support your claims, ESPECIALLY those regarding Criminal Justice.

Would you look at that, he never replied.
 

Biddlin

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An update: My cousin has had a couple of incidents in the last week that have garnered the interest of the US Commission on Civil Rights. As he was tending his garden last Saturday evening, a couple of goons drove by and ran down about forty feet of fencing and his front gate. He has recently installed a couple of 24/7 security cameras that captured the event from start to finish. He reported it to the local cops and the next day was visited by a sergeant who took no notes, did not want to view the video of the incident but did comment,"Maybe you ought to save yourself some grief and just sell the place. Seems like you can't handle the upkeep." Less than 24 hours later an real estate agent who is coincidentally also an attorney for the fictitious church of space monkey believers arrived unbidden and had a formal contract and offer prepared should cousin want to sell the property. When he didn't get in the front door, he departed telling my cousin. "You'll regret this, I guarantee it!"
Cous reported all this to his congressperson and wonder of wonder, an attorney for the USCCR called and then came down for an interview. He is investigating a series of such incidents, apparently.
Meanwhile, in a semi-tropical place where the water is "clear" and the populace is "audited" by the fictitious Church of Space Monkey Believers, a lanky, slightly stooped man, of 70 years more or less, maintains his historic home and small property in good order by his daily walk around the place. Now cous has started carrying his machete in a scabbard and wearing his Airborne Ranger jungle hat with both ARVN and screaming Eagle patches displayed." I'll give them Xenuphobes something much more manifest than intergalactic space monkeys to ponder." I hope to go down and visit in September.
 

Robus

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I can't help but notice you didn't cite any sources, you just insist that the disproportionate arrests are not true.

The one source you do cite is the New Jersey State Police. Not a scientific research organization but the very institution facing the claims of racial profiling. That you do not see the conflict of interest here is ... distressing, to say the least.

Not only that, the NJSP study was DEBUNKED:

https://watermark.silverchair.com/m...eDtdhM5-uQxK3OSBQkAFQwEZJ4dtdmZUGvSJpJfdbvV58

Your claim about sentencing disparity being due to priors is also false:

"We find that the majority of the disparity between black and white sentences can be explained by differences in legally permitted characteristics, in particular, the arrest offense and the defendant’s criminal history. Black arrestees are also disproportionately concentrated in federal districts that have higher sentences in general. Yet even after we control for these and other prior characteristics, an unexplained black-white sentence disparity of approximately 9 percent remains in our main sample. The disparity is nearly 13 percent in a broader sample that includes drug cases."

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles

Marginally increased tax revenue does not help a family who can no longer afford to live. And your example of a family looking to sell is an outlier. The vast majority of people in these towns are not trying to sell their homes.

Since you were so utterly incorrect about everything else and have not replied to Layne's rebuttal anyway, you don't deserve a response to your last fear mongering point on immigration.

QED

Would you look at that, he never replied.

No disrespect intended, but internet political debates are bad for the blood pressure so I try to indulge sparingly.

Layne wrote this:

The IMMIGRANTS are not the ones taking ANY jobs in Nashville besides in farming and contracting both of which are lower income jobs- i have a fair amount of first hand experience in these jobs as well. The majority of Nashvilles jobs are being occupied by higher income, young, white college graduates- NOT IMMIGRANTS.

Look around you. Who is doing manual labor in landscaping, construction, roofing, siding, food service, agriculture, and the list goes on and on? Open your eyes. Where are the black workers in those trades? Go find a photograph from 20 years ago, before this flood of illegals. See the change? Americans were doing those jobs, including many blacks. There are 20 million unskilled illegals in the country, with another 1.5 coming this year. If you don't understand the impact of millions of unskilled workers willing to accept rock bottom wages on labor markets for the most vulnerable segment of the American working class, and blacks especially, it's because you choose not to see it.

PermissionToLand:

1. Casting doubt on a study because of NJHP sponsorships is poisoning the well. How better to counter the accusation of bias than with evidence? Your link doesn't work, but I know what's in it. People have been trying to make that study disappear since before it was published even. Of course they impugn it. The fact remains, it was a huge study and an ingenious one, unique because nobody will risk doing it again for fear of the same result. All of this is about discounting any evidence that might show the "driving while black" stop to be urban legend, because it disrupts the victimhood narrative.

2. Sentencing disparities: The game of competing regressions goes on. There are studies that say just the opposite. First of all, no study in any social science is worth a damn until it has been replicated. Period. Half of published studies fail to replicate when put to the test, and in the more ideological fields like social psychology, sociology, criminology, education, etc., it is far worse. For instance Science and Nature, two journals at the tippy top of prestige in the scientific world, found that half the social science studies they had published could not replicate. In short, we have to assume any claim based on social science research is bogus until proven different. With that caveat, let's assume your Starr and Rehavi study is correct, and that 9% of the racial variance in sentencing is unexplained. Okay. What does that mean? First, it means that legitimate factors explain 91% of the variance. Second, it does not mean that racial bias explains the 9%. But even if racial bias were the sole explanation, it would not explain the large difference in the experiences of blacks with the criminal justice system, verses other groups' experiences. Disproportionate black criminality is the overwhelming explanation.
 

Robus

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Layne Matz:

One very important point though is that the people who are beginning to populate Nashville are white college graduates who obviously have a hugher income if they can afford those condos. My favorite neighbor in Nashville was Ms.Cynthia Washington, one of the first black teachers in desegregated schools in Nashville. She has been recieveing threats, phone scams and trick letters from developers who want her property. The issue with gentrification is that if you are a low income renter who has been evicted brcuase your lease is up your only option is the projects which are already full, its not a matter of tribalism its that these people grew up here and are now forced out becuase majority of them do not own their homes- the ones that do can make a fortune selling to developers and thats fair but those who have no chpice are displaced and driven further into poverty. The concerns are what this does to disenfranchised low income people who live in poverty or barely above it. Its not about turf, its about the fact that vast numbers of low income people are being displaced form their place of origin.

This is the market telling you that you're in the wrong place. Let's be honest about it. The black inner city is unsustainable. It depends on subsidies from outside for everything: police, fire, paramedics, teachers, the people who fix the potholes. None of it is paid for by the people in those communities. There will never be enough jobs there. They are dead ends. People need to leave those places and go where the jobs are, as has always happened in dynamic economies. Policies that trap people in permanent enclaves of poverty and dependency may be good for urban politicians, but are a disaster for everyone else. "Gentrification" is a process of healthy regeneration that is benefiting cities.
 

sazista

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Layne, your points are well-taken and on target. The above condeming of "fake statistics" is in itself based on biased studies. Gentrification (wealthier Whites) does not benefit the non-whites being forced out of their neighborhoods. But it might help them sell their home (if they own it) for a higher rate, to make room for people to move in from another class and color.
Whatever, life goes on and soon Frump will be the frick out of office! Clueless idiot.
:0


Id be willing to cite some sources and try to address every point you brought up but I'm not willing to get banned over this. I disagree and I beleive statistically you will find that the numbers do not support your claims, ESPECIALLY those regarding Criminal Justice.

One very important point though is that the people who are beginning to populate Nashville are white college graduates who obviously have a hugher income if they can afford those condos. My favorite neighbor in Nashville was Ms.Cynthia Washington, one of the first black teachers in desegregated schools in Nashville. She has been recieveing threats, phone scams and trick letters from developers who want her property. The issue with gentrification is that if you are a low income renter who has been evicted brcuase your lease is up your only option is the projects which are already full, its not a matter of tribalism its that these people grew up here and are now forced out becuase majority of them do not own their homes- the ones that do can make a fortune selling to developers and thats fair but those who have no chpice are displaced and driven further into poverty. The concerns are what this does to disenfranchised low income people who live in poverty or barely above it. Its not about turf, its about the fact that vast numbers of low income people are being displaced form their place of origin. The IMMIGRANTS are not the ones taking ANY jobs in Nashville besides in farming and contracting both of which are lower income jobs- i have a fair amount of first hand experience in these jobs as well. The majority of Nashvilles jobs are being occupied by higher income, young, white college graduates- NOT IMMIGRANTS. What makes you think immigrants can afford those housing prices, I worked my ass of as a 19 yearold white male and still struggled to pay 1600/month rent for an out of code little house- thats not including any utilities or insurance.

Go live around Buchanan Street for a couple years and then tell me what you think.

Most of the people who seem to argue for a lot of the points you just gave me earn a living wage, grew up in an economically secure family of situation, and have not experienced many of the things that lead to people struggling through life.

NO ONE SUPPORTS OPEN BORDERS, They support new border procedures and regulations regarding who and how we let people into the country and how they will become a citizen.

Can i ask, who'd you vote for in 2016?
 

Lynurd Fireburd

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An update: My cousin has had a couple of incidents in the last week that have garnered the interest of the US Commission on Civil Rights. As he was tending his garden last Saturday evening, a couple of goons drove by and ran down about forty feet of fencing and his front gate. He has recently installed a couple of 24/7 security cameras that captured the event from start to finish. He reported it to the local cops and the next day was visited by a sergeant who took no notes, did not want to view the video of the incident but did comment,"Maybe you ought to save yourself some grief and just sell the place. Seems like you can't handle the upkeep." Less than 24 hours later an real estate agent who is coincidentally also an attorney for the fictitious church of space monkey believers arrived unbidden and had a formal contract and offer prepared should cousin want to sell the property. When he didn't get in the front door, he departed telling my cousin. "You'll regret this, I guarantee it!"
Cous reported all this to his congressperson and wonder of wonder, an attorney for the USCCR called and then came down for an interview. He is investigating a series of such incidents, apparently.
Meanwhile, in a semi-tropical place where the water is "clear" and the populace is "audited" by the fictitious Church of Space Monkey Believers, a lanky, slightly stooped man, of 70 years more or less, maintains his historic home and small property in good order by his daily walk around the place. Now cous has started carrying his machete in a scabbard and wearing his Airborne Ranger jungle hat with both ARVN and screaming Eagle patches displayed." I'll give them Xenuphobes something much more manifest than intergalactic space monkeys to ponder." I hope to go down and visit in September.
Yours is the 2nd similar story i've read on a guitar forum this week. Your cousin might want to look into gangstalking laws where he lives. I sympathize.

This forum seems to have a very relaxed politics discussion rule. This thread would have been shut down long ago everywhere else.
 

Biddlin

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This thread would have been shut down long ago everywhere else.
I discouraged any politicization, to little avail.
Your cousin might want to look into gangstalking laws where he lives.
The "laws where he lives" are subservient to the will of the high priest of the fictitious church of space monkey believers. Local authorities are less than useless, actually serving the will of the high priest. My cousin's complexion is also a shade that has historically been deemed less than worthy of consideration by the regional government, to the extent that since reconstruction days the "majority" has crafted "laws" to insure their continued dominance including exclusion from the right to vote.
 

Lynurd Fireburd

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I discouraged any politicization, to little avail.

The "laws where he lives" are subservient to the will of the high priest of the fictitious church of space monkey believers. Local authorities are less than useless, actually serving the will of the high priest. My cousin's complexion is also a shade that has historically been deemed less than worthy of consideration by the regional government, to the extent that since reconstruction days the "majority" has crafted "laws" to insure their continued dominance including exclusion from the right to vote.
Gangstalking is a Federal offense. I wouldn't bother with "the laws where he lives", nor would I rest until this is resolved. I'd go through any other Federal Bureau until I got some kind of action, especially if this has been documented. Easy for me to say sitting somewhat comfortably in my home.

I wish your cousin the best.
 

PermissionToLand

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Look around you. Who is doing manual labor in landscaping, construction, roofing, siding, food service, agriculture, and the list goes on and on? Open your eyes. Where are the black workers in those trades? Go find a photograph from 20 years ago, before this flood of illegals. See the change? Americans were doing those jobs, including many blacks. There are 20 million unskilled illegals in the country, with another 1.5 coming this year. If you don't understand the impact of millions of unskilled workers willing to accept rock bottom wages on labor markets for the most vulnerable segment of the American working class, and blacks especially, it's because you choose not to see it.

The facts simply prove the opposite of your assertions:

Contrary to popular belief, immigrants do not take away jobs from American workers. Instead, they create new jobs by forming new businesses, spending their incomes on American goods and services, paying taxes and raising the productivity of U.S. businesses.

  • A U.S. Department of Labor study prepared by the Bush Administration noted that the perception that immigrants take jobs away from American workers is "the most persistent fallacy about immigration in popular thought" because it is based on the mistaken assumption that there is only a fixed number of jobs in the economy.
  • Experts note that immigrants are blamed for unemployment because Americans can see the jobs immigrants fill but not the jobs they create through productivity, capital formation and demand for goods and services.
  • Immigrants pay more than $90 billion in taxes every year and receive only $5 billion in welfare. Without their contributions to the public treasury, the economy would suffer enormous losses.
In a 1990 American Immigration Institute Survey of prominent economists, four out of five said that immigrants had a favorable impact on economic growth. None said that immigrants had an adverse impact on economic growth.

A 1994 study of unemployment and immigration by Richard Vedder and Lowell Galloway of Ohio University spanning 100 years (from 1891 to 1991) found that higher rates of foreign-born population historically have corresponded to lower unemployment rates. The study found that immigrants expand total output and the demand for labor, tend to be highly productive and promote capital formation through high savings rates.

According to a L.A. Times analysis summarizing the best available research, "Immigrants contribute mightily to the economy, by paying billions in annual taxes, by filling low-wage jobs that keep domestic industry competitive, and by spurring investment and job-creation, revitalizing once-decaying communities. Many social scientists conclude that the newcomers, rather than drain government treasuries, contribute overall far more than they utilize in services." (January 6, 1992).

Studies by the Rand Corporation, the University of Maryland, the Council of Economic Advisors, the National Research Council and the Urban Institute all show that immigrants do not have a negative effect on the earnings and employment opportunities of native-born Americans. A 1989 Department of Labor study found that neither U.S. workers in complementary jobs, nor most minority workers, appear to be adversely affected by immigration.

Educate yourself on the subject instead of reveling in simplistic assumptions.

https://www.aclu.org/other/immigrants-and-economy

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/econom...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

1. Casting doubt on a study because of NJHP sponsorships is poisoning the well. How better to counter the accusation of bias than with evidence? Your link doesn't work, but I know what's in it. People have been trying to make that study disappear since before it was published even. Of course they impugn it. The fact remains, it was a huge study and an ingenious one, unique because nobody will risk doing it again for fear of the same result. All of this is about discounting any evidence that might show the "driving while black" stop to be urban legend, because it disrupts the victimhood narrative.

1. You're dodging. Pointing out a conflict of interest is not poisoning the well, it's basic source vetting that YOU should have done yourself before making such an argument.

A study of 25 trips across the NJT is what you call "a huge study"? You clearly know nothing about the scientific method.

"unique because nobody will risk doing it again for fear of the same result"? Again, this is not how the scientific community operates. You are blinded by your own bias and victimhood narrative.

I could just as easily say that "all of this is about discounting any evidence that might show the 'driving while black' stop to be true", but how would that further the debate here any? It is not presenting any argument or evidence, it is simply grandstanding. And that is what your entire time here has amounted to; you present no actual arguments or evidence, you just make opinionated claims presented as truisms.

Apparently my prior link is not working, so here it is again:

https://academic.oup.com/lpr/article-pdf/8/2/139/2773672/mgp014.pdf

In fact, federal monitoring that was created as a result of the NJSP's profiling found - SURPRISE - profiling:

https://www.app.com/story/news/inve...kely-give-white-drivers-no-tickets/415972001/

2. Sentencing disparities: The game of competing regressions goes on. There are studies that say just the opposite. First of all, no study in any social science is worth a damn until it has been replicated. Period. Half of published studies fail to replicate when put to the test, and in the more ideological fields like social psychology, sociology, criminology, education, etc., it is far worse. For instance Science and Nature, two journals at the tippy top of prestige in the scientific world, found that half the social science studies they had published could not replicate. In short, we have to assume any claim based on social science research is bogus until proven different. With that caveat, let's assume your Starr and Rehavi study is correct, and that 9% of the racial variance in sentencing is unexplained. Okay. What does that mean? First, it means that legitimate factors explain 91% of the variance. Second, it does not mean that racial bias explains the 9%. But even if racial bias were the sole explanation, it would not explain the large difference in the experiences of blacks with the criminal justice system, verses other groups' experiences. Disproportionate black criminality is the overwhelming explanation.

2. Ah, so because the study of social sciences is imperfect, your own baseless suppositions should be trusted in their stead. Gotcha. Talk about poisoning the well. There is simply no shame in your game, huh?

You're right though, an unexplained bias that conforms strictly to racial differences couldn't be a result of discrimination due to racial differences! That would be a wild jump to conclusions! It must be... racially inherent criminality and inferiority. You realize you are literally repeating white supremacist arguments, do you not?

And the obvious reason blacks are more disproportionately targeted than other minorities is because of the entirety of American history where they were enslaved and demonized far beyond any other group. How you could be so utterly clueless of history is mind boggling and distressing...
 

PermissionToLand

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Layne Matz:



This is the market telling you that you're in the wrong place. Let's be honest about it. The black inner city is unsustainable. It depends on subsidies from outside for everything: police, fire, paramedics, teachers, the people who fix the potholes. None of it is paid for by the people in those communities. There will never be enough jobs there. They are dead ends. People need to leave those places and go where the jobs are, as has always happened in dynamic economies. Policies that trap people in permanent enclaves of poverty and dependency may be good for urban politicians, but are a disaster for everyone else. "Gentrification" is a process of healthy regeneration that is benefiting cities.

Ah, so market Fascism! "You do not belong here, inferior being. You are being 'relocated' by force. This area is now Judenfrei."

Actually it is the white rural areas that are unsustainable and subsidized by the cities in America. Once again, you project your own side's failings onto the other...

AP FACT CHECK: Blue high-tax states fund red low-tax states

https://www.apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c

There will never be enough jobs there... People need to leave those places and go where the jobs are

Once again, you prove you know nothing about the very capital markets you defend so vigorously.

Jobs can be created anywhere and flooding the job market in places where they already exist is NOT how capital markets are supposed to work.
 

Tony M

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If unskilled Americans really want jobs they should move
to Mexico. There must be a lot of low level job opportunities
there because Mexico's entire unskilled workforce came to
America and stole all the low level unskilled jobs here.
If that happens all the unskilled people of
both countries will have jobs.

If they don't want to move they can commute.
The United States Air Force has a very high capacity airlift capability.
Just turn all those C-130s and C5As into commuter planes.

Problems are easy to solve if you are willing to think outside the norm.

C'mon people, lighten up.
This is a guitar forum.
 
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Tony M

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Spoken like a true American Supremacist. Catch a fire man

Quotes me out of context.
Responds to the partial quote.
Typical.

Going to Area 51 next month?

...and let me guess...

He's not your President!
 
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Layne Matz

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Quotes me out of context.
Responds to the partial quote.
Typical.

Going to Area 51 next month?

...and let me guess...

He's not your President!
Did i take you out of context? Please clarify.

No l will not be going to Area 51 and I wish that more Americans showed that much enthusiasm for public policies that will address the problems we face today.

By definition Trump is my and every other Americans president whether we like it or not, just as its always been with previous presidents. I wasnt fond of Obama and his policies or rhetoric either. Whats most troubling about my/our president is his ability to adapt his policies and opinions instantly. So many of the things that he ran his campaign on in 2016 he was in fact, as empirical data will show, lying about many of his plans and beliefs. Besides that, he has accepted large sums of money from Saudi Arabian officials before granting them an 8 billion dollar arms deal while they continue to fund and support 'jihadist rebels' in their genocidal war on the people of Yemen. All while waging economic warfare on Iran via forcing their oil exports to zero and illegally sanctioning medicine and medical equipment, as well as economically terrorizing Venezuela with internationally ILLEGAL sanctions on all manner of things but primarily food, medicine and medical equipment, while waging a proxy war through the white nationalist Venezuelan opposition.


Anywho, I wanted the swamp DRAINED- NOT PUT IN THE PRESIDENTS F*CKING CABINET. Go down the list of things he said and claimed during the 2016 campaign, not just his policy proposals, promises and claims but everything else as well. I wish it werent so troubling and resulting in the deaths of literally thousands of people globally.
 

Tony M

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Did i take you out of context? Please clarify.

If one reads my ENTIRE post, it is obviously an exercise
in facetiousness and an attempt to inject some humor
into the thread.

The part you quoted out of context sounds like, as you
put it, the ravings of a "true American Supremacist".

Sorry if you missed my feeble attempt at humor.
I'll try to use smaller words next time.
I'll use lots of smileys everywhere too.
Do you like this one
:smile:,
this one,
:lol:
or this one?
:rofl:

Last but not least:
What does "Catch a fire man" mean?
I'm not fluent in the latest language permutations.
(Uhoh! 4 syllable word there!:ohno:)
 

Layne Matz

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What does "Catch a fire man" mean?


I read the whole post.
After meeting so many people who hold those types of beliefs you espoused in 'humor' and living with the effects of those beliefs when put into practice I fail to feel humor surrounding it. I doubt I'd be able to laugh about or find humor in the history of slavery, the drug war, or the holocaust either. These issues facing societies and everday people are causing tremedous suffering and its increasing exponentially. I feel there isnt time for much humor, or even entertainment. I understand this is not a practical or widely held belief. Music is not neccissarily entertainment in my opinion, but as some have called it a language of its own, or an 'electric church'.

Not sure what you meant referencing Alabama in the other thread. Im not from AL by the way, originally from Minnesota, then moved to Nashville, then Alabama.
 


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