just acquired a 65 SG jr (questions)

Discussion in 'Vintage SG' started by teleholic, Sep 6, 2014.

  1. Hammer

    Hammer Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, but...I'd still put money on the reset to get things sorted correctly for the long haul. It just looks so...off, even in the first pic you posted. I'd try to get a 2nd opinion if you could find one.
     
  2. kevbo82

    kevbo82 Member

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    yeah 2nd opinion might be good. Seems like your putting a bandaid on a bullet wound, and actually doing more damage to the guitar at the same time. you can spend a little bit of money now and alter the guitar, and end up spending even more later when you eventually have to deal with the neck and then everything else is off.
     
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  3. teleholic

    teleholic Member

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    yeah i thought so too..but like i mentioned there aren't many qualified techs here..thanks anyway guys..
     
  4. Kevin James

    Kevin James Active Member

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    Sad to say I haven't been around much lately as I've just been so busy over the last year. I want to correct some mis-information in this thread though.

    Kris, Brazilian rosewood whent all the way through 65 and into early possibly mid 66. My own late 65 Standard (in the 5129XX series) is definitely Brazilian as has been every example I have looked at in hand.

    No, 1964 was all nickel as was early 1965. Chrome did not come in until mid 65. The early 65's were 100% 1964 spec including nut width, headstock pitch, heel with lip, early control route, and nickel hardware. My own Early 65 in Serial Range 2692XX has all of those features and I have seen many examples in hand as late as the 33XXXX series that also exhibit all 64 features. My late 65 has an original nickel covered neck pickup a chrome ABR and Chrome vibrola. Bridge pickup was changed to a Dimarzio when I got it so no idea if the original bridge pup was chrome or nickel.

    Sorry Kevbo, your JR being in the 515XXX rangle will be in the 1 9/16" range for sure. That's not necessarily a bad thing. My late 65 has a nut width just between 1 9/16 and 1 5/8 and it is one of my favorite necks. I love that neck and it's my main player because of it.

    I am really on a quest to figure out the time line on the changes in 65 and one thing I have noticed is a gaping whole in the serial ranges. There are 65's from the 250336 - 368638 range (although there are holes in that range with batches that are not 65 numbers) and there are 65's from the 500000 - 520995 range. There are none between 368639 and the entire 4XXXXX range.

    Every 65 I have seen in the 2XXXXX up through the 329XXX range has been all 64 spec. An example I looked at in the 3307XX range was all 64 spec with the exception of chrome pickup covers and all other metal was nickel. Everything I have seen in the 5XXXXX range has been all late 65 spec with narrow nut, 14 degree headstock, heel without lip large control route and mostly chrome hardware.
     
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  5. teleholic

    teleholic Member

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    Hey Kevin, thanks for all the great info! How do you tell if its brazilian though? Is mine brazilian?:o
     
  6. Kevin James

    Kevin James Active Member

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    The pores in the wood are one of the best giveaways. Brazilian has very long pores that run up and down in direction. For me, I have SG's from 61, 62, and 64 that are known to be Brazilian. Comparing the fingerboards on those with my early and late 65 made it clear that they are also Brazilian. In contrast, comparing my 65's with later guitars that are definitely Indian Rosewood they do not look the same.

    Looking at the pic you posted to show the neck center line (the only pic that shows the board clearly enough IMO) it looks like Brazilian to me and the serial being late 65 is in line with a Brazilian board as well.
     
  7. teleholic

    teleholic Member

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    oh on the first page in the OP theres a close up but up to the middle of the board only..
     
  8. SG John

    SG John Well-Known Member

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    I agree. There would be too much routing and wood replacement needed to be done if the tailpiece holes were plugged and re-drilled, along with moving the pickup. Get a replacement tailpiece, and shift the strings for now. Enjoy playing the guitar, and when the right person comes along have him fix the guitar properly.
     
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  9. teleholic

    teleholic Member

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    thanks sg john! i've taken the guitar to another luthier for a second opinion..hopefully he'll be able to fix her up!
     
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  10. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Well-Known Member

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    Now Kevin, you know damn well that I am the '67 and up guy LOL..still learning about the early ones..plus, like I said..lots of conflicting info and "facts" on the interwebz..
    I wasn't sure exactly when the cutoff for Brazilian was..the first pic to me did not look to be nice and chocolate brown, the light band of color threw me off..my '65's boards are a lot darker and richer than that..to me, it looked more like my '66 LG0's board, which I know is Indian...but you really can't see the grain that well in the pic.
    As for the chrome thing, there's a lot of part switching going on out in the world, but I have seen late '64s with chrome..not to say it's original, but that does not explain why my early '65 Junior (274XXX, pot codes of 137 65 04 all '64 spec) has chrome..I did remove a Badass bridge, but the mysterious part was that it had a chrome Maestro trem spring..this is the head scratcher..that is the plate mount style and not the flange mount style, which would've only been in use for roughly a year..(chrome replaces nickel in '65 sometime, then flange style comes in in '66 some time..) So, what are the odds the original nickel one was lost and replaced with a somewhat rarer and less available part..it also had chrome steel studs, not the Badass large flange brass ones..so with this in mind, had me thinking the switch to chrome came earlier in '65..perhaps the change happened to Juniors and Specials first?:hmm:
     
  11. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Well-Known Member

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    Also, my EB0 is 324XXX and has chrome hardware, but with the wide EB0 nut, small control cover exactly like a Junior and basically all '64 spec besides the chrome..
    I'm really starting to suspect that the lower priced models got chrome before the Standards did..when I say late '64, I don't exactly mean across the board, but Juniors...
     
  12. Kris Ford

    Kris Ford Well-Known Member

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    '65 Junior in 283XXX SN# range..with chrome, replacement bridge for plain G, but Maestro is chrome..:hmm:
    Vintage 1965 Gibson SG JR Junior Wide Nut Light Weight Clean w/ Original Case!!!
    Then, a '64 (solder obscures week number in date code...with chrome hardware..yes replacement bridge, but chrome Maestro...
    Gibson SG Junior 1964 Amazing Example | eBay
    '64, no trem, chrome TP and studs..
    Vintage Gibson 1964 SG Jr Junor with Hard Shell Case All Original Very Good Used | eBay
    There are a couple Specials with earlier '65 SN#s and chrome that I ran across as well...and one with later SN#s that have nickel..(thinking those are the ones that were swapped out, not vice versa..)I think I might be on to something here..
     
  13. javamagic

    javamagic Well-Known Member

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    Or perhaps the nickel ones were just down the bottom of the parts bin. :hmm:
     
  14. kevbo82

    kevbo82 Member

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    Well that "65" actually turned out to be a 68 with a swapped dog ear and early pickguard on it. Returned! lol Ended up with a 62 I'm much happier with.
     

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