After buying a 2019 GIBSON USA 'SG' Original, CME/ZZounds. I initially thought it was a STANDARD (and it is, for all intents and purpose's, BUT the 2019 SG Standard has a batwing PG, so GIBSON had to call it something else). The 'SG' in this thread, along with being a li'l Kluson REVOLUTION Tuning Machines THESE 'REVOLUTIONS' ROCK ! and look really COOL too...these TM's are A WELL SPENt $1 than I like to set a Slim-Taper Neck's Neck Relief at (due to possible twists in the Frets/Binding etc). BUT....MAN, this li'l Mo-Fo.... SCREEEEMS !!! A DIFFERENCE OF .003" , CLOSING THE NR FROM .006" @ 8TH FRET TO .003" @ 7TH FRET MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE. THE caps were my Bad, OOPS ![/ATTACH]
The KLUSON Revolution are fantastic, 19:1 high ratio, very smooth keys, very light weight. I removed the GForce and installed a set on my 2015 SG Std, AWESOME !
They really are great Tuning Machines...Smooth turning, lightweight..... Speak of luck.....I have been hoping to come across someone that has done just that, taken off the G-FARCE TM's and replaced them with regular Tuning Machines, Locking or Conventional. I hope u remember if there were/are holes in the back of the Head-Stock underneath the G-Force tuning Machine 'BOX' (or whatever it is called on the back of the headstock) to accomodate the screws of a traditionlal set of GIBSON Deluxe Green Key Tuning Machines, or like TM's, u kno? I have an 2015 SG Special with those annoying G-Farce TM's and the only reason they aren't gone yet is because I am leery of drilling such tiny holes into an angled piece of wood. If there are holes already (although I would suspect there is not !) there , just waiting for a set of good ol' Gibson DELUXE T.M's, GREAT ! If not ? Then I gotta drill, and then, if I have to drill....... maybe I won't do it. 1/16" Drill bits need pilot holes etc, etc...it could turn into a minor headache...... Do you remember when you took off the G-Farce Box if there were pre-drilled holes for the replacing TM's screws ? Thanks in advance for any info you may recall.
I would just like to point out that you can't just replace the tuners with whatever is hip, or new. There are consequences with the overall balance of the guitar. Many have swapped out old, heavy chrome Grovers for some lightweight tuners and have had to put weights on the neck to keep it from floating away.
I removed the G-Force from my 2015 Les Paul and replaced it with Grover Rotomatics. There were no screw holes underneath. The "box" is held only by the nuts that screw to the tuning posts on top of the headstock.
THANK YOU, Skelt, I appreciate your reply..... it is kinda what I figured.....why would GIBSON do it, if they do not have to, yes? I was hopin anyway.... The process of of swapping them out is simple enough: lining up the TM's and making a smaller Pilot hole, drill, repeat.... QUESTION: Does your Les Paul have the Brass Adjustable NUT ? IF SO, have the screws ever just frozen ? Did you ever put a lube on the screws? IMO, that adjustable NUT is the single greatest Innovation in Guitar building to come along in a really long time, BUT GIBSON made it too wide, 1 13/16"(?) instead of 1 11/16", not that an 1/8" is soo drastic, but then GIBSON discontinued the entire idea. Too bad, maybe its not the innovations I think it is? IDK, but it is less time consuming than fitting/filing a Bone Nut, and maybe going to far and having to start over again (and I just ran out of NUT blanks, FFS !). A simple twist of an Allen-Key, BANG, 1st Fret @ .23" across to .12" in seconds, Too simple maybe? so GIBSON discontinues it, INSTEAD OF PERFECTING IT (1-11/16").....SMH.
You're welcome, @Wild Bill212 ! My Les Paul does not have the adjustable nut. It is a bit of an odd one for the time period. The model was called the Les Paul Traditional Classic ABR, and was "exclusive" to Zzounds, American Musical and Sam Ash. It seemed to be a response to all the backlash Gibson was receiving at the time for their innovations. So, it didn't include things like the silly signature on the headstock, wider neck and adjustable nut. The one concession was the GForce tuners. I guess the reasoning was if the buyer didn't like/want it, a swap would be really easy. (And it was...) The adjustable nut does sound like a potentially good idea. As you said, it's a shame they didn't perfect it.
U kno U kno, it does seem like AMS and Zzounds get these 'exclusives' just about every year. Sometimes it wil be a Lester other years it will be an SG, but they do come up with some really BAD-A$$ Models. The SG I mention in the top of this thread is an 'Original' and I bought it without really paying attention to the way the Guitar was titled in the advertisement on the AMS web-site.It looked like a 'Standard' and has '57 Classics instead of the '61's that were on the 'SG' Standard for 2019, and that is why I bought it. The '57's just do it for me on SG's, SCREAMIN' !! N E Way, I had it for 2 years before I realized it was not a 'Standard'. My only minor issue with the SG 'Original' is the Slim-Taper Neck. Sim-Taper Necks are great and all but I have seen the Neck bindings 'Wrinkle' on the treble side, near the NUT, when closing the relief past .005" @ 7TH Fret. It happened on 2 Standards I have, both '17's, a Lester and an SG both of which are frikkin Cannons. Once I noticed the 'Wrinkle' I just opened the relief back up to .006" @ 8TH Fret and I was glad to see the 'Wrinkle' in the binding disappear. I'm waiting for Gibson to issue an SG Standard w/Angel-Wing PG w/Chunkier neck profile, like the Bat-Wing SG's always sem to have.......might be a long wait. IDK why but for some reason the SG Standard's w/Angel Wing PG's always have skinny necks, since the early '90's....IIRC. Ever notice this ?
For light weight "standard" tuners you have to drill 12 holes 1,5mm diameter and 9mm lenght, screws are 2 x 11 mm. You install the new tuners on the correct position, use a drill with adhesive on it to have the right lenght.
I don't like the look of these Kluson Revolution tuners at all; really ugly things to my eye - but, that's subjective, and if you like the look that's all that matters. Locking tuners are always functional at string changing time... I put a set of Kluson branded 18:1 ratio strip tuners on my SG Special, and they work great (as welling as looking the part to my eyes).
Right, the metric equuivalent to 1/16" is 1.588 MM....I got the 1/16" from the Retailer that sold me the 'Revo' TM's. The tape idea is a good one as well.Said retailer mentioned that, after the pilot hole is made, going half the length of the screw w/drill bit, then let the screw finds its way into the wood.Simple enuff....but...... IDK if I am going to do it, 12 holes and if I mess 1 up, headache time again. if someone wants a set of GIBSON Deluxe TM's, in new condition, I am open to offers. LOL !
Well, this particular guitar is a gift to a 3 year old Girl that is just starting to hit the keys on a piano, learning the scale. I figure that if she doesn't have to learn how to wrap the strings around the TM Post, right away...... she might not give up. It is just so everything is made easier for the Li'l future Joan Jett wanna-be/replacement.......
Right, same here..functional.I wanted to get a set of Locking Gibson TM's,u kno? To keep the li'l beastie 100% GIBSON USA like the 2017 Standards have, but Gibson,AFIK, is not selling them. these 'Revolution' TM's were recommended to me by a Player that has one of the SG 'Originals' as well and he mentioned they did not cause Neck Dive.That settled that...and, lol, now that you mention it B.B., they aren't the best looking TM's ever made (Grovers?) but they are pretty impressive little engineering marvels.Kinda like the Doozy Les Trem II tremolo, kinda ugly, but functional as all get out and at a good price point.N E way, they got my vote...and I've no regrets.
The revolution tuners are excellent. They work fine, fit in the same holes, and don't pull the eye on modern, thick heads like my '18 SG special. They blend in enough and the 18:1 action is so much better than the gibson deluxe. I had to buy something when this guitar arrived with a couple of defective deluxe tuners straight from the factory. However, they stick out and poke in the eye with those thick stems on old style, thin heads like my '61 stop bar. Sadly, I had to take them off this guitar because I couldn't look at them. At least this guitar came with 6 working tuners. I do wish stock tuners came 18:1.
Defective TM's from the factory, FFS !!! Sorry to hear that, GEEZ ! I Agree, the REVO TM's did make a difference, AFA the li'l beastie staying in tune. Not huge, but definitely noticeable. IDK if I just got lucky or what, but this Li'L SG w/Maestro has never given me any tuning issue's.The NUT was cut right at the factory and that was a bonus to not have to do as soon as I got it. For me, its usually SOP to change, or at least file, the NUT on any USA line Gibson......maybe one other one, a Firebird V, had a good enuff NUT right out the box.....
