Les Paul?

[MR D]

JUST MY $1.380: the 1961-63 SG's were called 'Les Paul's, but anyone can see they are SG's. Besides giving up on wtf GIBSON USA is thinking/doing and why they do it, ER, does anyone really think their 1961-63 SG is really a LES PAUL ? C'mon....

 

[everdying]

so what is a Les Paul? a single cut model?

then what about the LP DC back then... I'm pretty sure Les had no say in that... and it shared the "typical flimsy" neck joint that later made its way to the SG...

its all down to what gibson says it is...

if they so wished... they could have probably put the Les Paul name on an explorer then before the contract with Les ran out...

and let's not forget that Les initially wanted a maho cap over maple body... which thankfully got rejected...

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Was there such a thing as a Gibson SG 400 ?

Jean, yes, look in my catalogue links,

 

[DrBGood]

View attachment 46586

Jean, yes, look in my catalogue links,


View attachment 46586

No similarity, but could the Epiphone G400 name come from there ?

 

[pancake81]

so what is a Les Paul? a single cut model?

then what about the LP DC back then... I'm pretty sure Les had no say in that... and it shared the "typical flimsy" neck joint that later made its way to the SG...

its all down to what gibson says it is...

if they so wished... they could have probably put the Les Paul name on an explorer then before the contract with Les ran out...

and let's not forget that Les initially wanted a maho cap over maple body... which thankfully got rejected...

Yes, you are correct. Gibson could have put the Les Paul name on anything they wanted. Although if they put it on an explorer it would just be an explorer with a Les Paul TRC. What makes the SG more unique in that sense is that the SG actually replaced the previous model LP as we knew it. That traditional LP design was gone. Unavailable. What was avaiable was the new model Les Paul.

Now in 1968 the LP was re-introduced and that's what muddies the water a bit. The whole is it a new model SG or a LP. Think of this, what if the LP never returned, and Les loved the new design..? Then it would truly just be a Les Paul. I am sure the SG name would have stuck in some fashion, although there is rumor that the SG acronym actually stood for "Second Generation" as appose to Solid Guitar. Personally, I never understood the Solid Guitar acronym. Gibson previously had Solid Guitars, so why call this model an SG? Just marketing that this was their one and only electric solid body guitar? Could make sense, as could the second generation theory.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Pancake, b4 you got to the Suppose they never re introduced the Les Paul like the pre 62 Single cut original?

IMAGINE how freaking expensive those early Gold Top LP's and Bursts would be in 2022 dollars had that happened.

 

[PermissionToLand]

1) This is incorrect. I refer you to the book, 'The early years of the Les Paul legacy 1915-1963' by Robb Lawrence, pages 190 and 192, wherein you will see photos of headstocks with the words 'Les Paul Special' on them.

You're thinking of the Junior. Those had a Les Paul Junior silkscreen on the headstock until mid-'63.

https://solidguitar.fandom.com/wiki/SG_Junior#1961_-_1965

Here's a '63 (confirmed by pot codes) Junior with the silkscreen:

https://guitarpoint.de/en/product/1963-gibson-les-paul-sg-junior-cherry/

 

[Col Mustard]

let's answer the OP's questions:

Q1. did Gibson make Les Pauls with two pickups?
A #1: YES...

Q2. How can I verify this SG is a Les Paul?
A #2: It is NOT a Les Paul. You can verify that it is an SG. Gibson might have made an
attempt to build a replica of the SG from 1962, but it is still an SG even if they screwed Les Paul's name on it.

Q3: Did Gibson ever install a truss rod cover on a 1987 SG that read Les Paul?
A#3: No, we don't think they did. And even if they did, an SG is never a Les Paul
IMHO of course.

There you have it... Now let's see some pictures of this axe...

 

[pancake81]

Pancake, b4 you got to the Suppose they never re introduced the Les Paul like the pre 62 Single cut original?

IMAGINE how freaking expensive those early Gold Top LP's and Bursts would be in 2022 dollars had that happened.

Yeah it’s hard to say in those hypothetical scenarios isn’t it. I wonder though, if they would fetch much more money at all considering the price are at now. I mean, sure they model would be more rare in its entirety, but it’s not like they would be more or less of those early models. It might even drop the price from the current value. If they never brought them back the model might not have become as famous as it did, and may have just petered out. Not creating this cult fan base it has not.

I mean, 300,400 and $500,000 for a guitar is nuts. Where can it go from there!? Sell a house a buy a guitar, lol. I am not sure it would increase prices much from there. The crazy thing to think about though, would be that the world would only have a few thousand Les Pauls in existence. As appose to the 100,000’s or millions there are now

 

[Go Nigel Go]

There are around 650 surviving Stradivarius violins in the world, which currently sell for tens of millions when they come on the market. They are truly great instruments, but is anything really worth 30 million dollars (or more)? Only the buyer can say. Given how musician's get paid, the market is clearly driven by investors. Musicians have to get access by the investor loaning the instrument for performances and recordings. Thankfully things haven't gotten that crazy for most instruments yet. Never say never though...

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Yeah it’s hard to say in those hypothetical scenarios isn’t it. I wonder though, if they would fetch much more money at all considering the price are at now. I mean, sure they model would be more rare in its entirety, but it’s not like they would be more or less of those early models. It might even drop the price from the current value. If they never brought them back the model might not have become as famous as it did, and may have just petered out. Not creating this cult fan base it has not.

I mean, 300,400 and $500,000 for a guitar is nuts. Where can it go from there!? Sell a house a buy a guitar, lol. I am not sure it would increase prices much from there. The crazy thing to think about though, would be that the world would only have a few thousand Les Pauls in existence. As appose to the 100,000’s or millions there are now

Our currency is very cheap in some countries such as Japan, and there are also some very very rich people in today's society now vs say over the past number of years, who could purchase high priced guitars, cars, diamonds, mansions, businesses etc. So I think uber expensive guitars would be drop in the bucket type purchases. Look at Pro Atheletes, Actors, Oprah,Bill Gates, Bloomberg, Soros etc types.

But I do agree, we are talking hypothetical stuff.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

let's answer the OP's questions:

There you have it... Now let's see some pictures of this axe...

Or at worst post the serial number so we can at least verify the details on the date manufactured etc and explain them.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

jtees4, Nice to see u here in ETSG forum as well.

 

[jtees4]

This thread explains better than I could myself...just why whenever there is a thread about "what guitar would you play if they stopped making the SG?"....my answer is always a 1961 Les Paul.

 

[pancake81]

This thread explains better than I could myself...just why whenever there is a thread about "what guitar would you play if they stopped making the SG?"....my answer is always a 1961 Les Paul.

That’s a beauty !

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

This thread explains better than I could myself...just why whenever there is a thread about "what guitar would you play if they stopped making the SG?"....my answer is always a 1961 Les Paul.

Jtees, you may know a fellow member here and over at our other haunt. Smittyp. He and I are less than 1 hr apart and have met up a few times at my house and at Atomic Music. He had an awesome Semi Hollow that scratches my ES 335 itch at far less money than the real deal. He sold it to me a year ago, and i truly think this budget guitar sounds killer. I know it is partly due to it's sweet Seymour Duncan pickups, and also is due to the semi hollow design. Next to LP, SG, ES335, 135/175's, I flat out think it is a killer guitar at any price.

 

[everdying]

let's bring another analogy into play... the ever popular Honda civic...
back then it was a small 2 door hatch... now it looks completely different...
but honda says it's still a civic... so who are we to argue?

so too the 1961 Les Paul...

guitarists are a funny bunch...

refinish / refurbish almost anything else to a good standard... and it usually increases the value...

refinish a guitar... and it'll be 50% less

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

HEHE Everdying.

Here are what my 2 Civics would have looked like new.

 

[cerebral gasket]

1970 Maverick (coupe)
2022 Maverick (truck)

SG Les Paul
Jumbo Shrimp

You can call me whatever you want, but never call me late for dinner.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

CG they make <Maverick Trucks now?