Maiden Post at the forum: Which one do I go for?

[peiyuanchao]

Hello Fellow SG forum friends:

Hi dear SG gurus, I have been a Les Paul guy forever, but recently got bit by the SG bug REALLY REALLY badly.
And I realize this is probably the time for my first SG.

and of course immediately, I ran into GAS dilemmas:
Gibson USA

61SG and SG standard

I don't know which one to choose?!
please hear me out:

I don't like neck dive, I play standing up - I can't stand it for neck dive
this made me think the 61 is better? thinner neck and lighter Tunner machine?

But I don't like the 61SG pickups from Gibson, the 61R 61T? they have them in LP 60s and I really didn't like them, I like the PAF style pickups that weak and dynamic, also I prefer C shape(rounded) neck than the slim taper-
so I don't know what to do here....

any thoughts?

THANK YOU !

 

[Go Nigel Go]

Neck dive can almost always be tamed simply by using a nice grippy strap. I use suede backed straps on a very neck heavy/light body SG and it is no problem at all. With a slick Nylon strap it might hit my leg hard enough to leave a mark. The strap solves everything.

As for what model to choose, I always recommend auditioning them in person if at all possible. You can make your list of what you think you want, but trying them out in person may give you a different perspective on components and features you thought were deal breakers. One of the main benefits to me about the SG is precisely that it is different than my Les Paul. I got mine because I needed a backup axe, and it was a super cheap fixer-upper. At first I wasn't thrilled with some aspects of it, but couldn't afford to change it. Now I love it and wouldn't change a thing. It really grew on me.

 

[An Abiding Dude]

Hello Fellow SG forum friends:

Hi dear SG gurus, I have been a Les Paul guy forever, but recently got bit by the SG bug REALLY REALLY badly.
And I realize this is probably the time for my first SG.

and of course immediately, I ran into GAS dilemmas:
Gibson USA

61SG and SG standard

I don't know which one to choose?!
please hear me out:

I don't like neck dive, I play standing up - I can't stand it for neck dive
this made me think the 61 is better? thinner neck and lighter Tunner machine?

But I don't like the 61SG pickups from Gibson, the 61R 61T? they have them in LP 60s and I really didn't like them, I like the PAF style pickups that weak and dynamic, also I prefer C shape(rounded) neck than the slim taper-
so I don't know what to do here....

any thoughts?

THANK YOU !

I would add that you should look into Specials as well. There's something special (ugh, I hear the pun) about P90s that's worth looking into. Think about a Junior as well: simple, direct. A used Gibson Classic SG from the oughts is something to look into if you can. Epiphone is producing a version of the Classic presently, which might be a cool little toe-dip into SG-dom without a huge investment. Most of all have fun and play as many different models as you can get your hands on.

Neck dive on an SG is overblown. Just invest in a leather strap with a textured underside and it will never be an issue.

 

[madhermit]

Pickups are an easy swap, so go for the 61. I too generally prefer low output vintage style PAFs.

But… I really didn’t bond with the 61 pickups in my SG until I spent a few days playing with pickup heights, I would tweak them, play, then come back again and listen with fresh ears. did that a few times in a few days and bam! They are now my fav Gibson pickup. They sound awesome to me.

 

[DrBGood]

Pickups are an easy swap, so go for the 61. I too generally prefer low output vintage style PAFs.

But… I really didn’t bond with the 61 pickups in my SG until I spent a few days playing with pickup heights, I would tweak them, play, then come back again and listen with fresh ears. did that a few times in a few days and bam! They are now my fav Gibson pickup. They sound awesome to me.

My mantra ...
A screwdriver is the easiest, fastest, cheapest and by far the most efficient way to a good tone. You might replace your pickups a dozen times, if you put them back at the same height as the last ones, the problem will likely persist.

But I don't like the 61SG pickups from Gibson, the 61R 61T? they have them in LP 60s and I really didn't like them, I like the PAF style pickups that weak and dynamic,

Find their sweet spot, they just might become your preferred pickups. Lower that neck pickup as much as you can and it will reveal its true nature.

 

[papagayo]

Welcome, the SG Standard body is heavier than than the '61 body. Neck strap button is on a better position on the SG Standard.

I have '61 RI and Standard, no neck dive issue, light weight tuners is important IMHO.

Strap buttons position,

 

[madhermit]

Oh yeah, I also replaced the metal tuning buttons with pearloid. It took a fair amount of weight off of the headstock, more than I expected. 60g/2.1 ounces.
I got the set of buttons from Hipshot, D-04 - pearloid.

 

[cerebral gasket]

It's all about the neck.
After playing Custom Shop LP's with fat 50's necks, all SG necks feel thin to me by comparison.

Once in a while you can find an SG with batwing that has a decent size neck that does not feel like playing a popsicle stick.

I've never experienced the "neck dive" phenomenon with any of my SG.

 

[Alanbama]

Well I was in the same position that you are in. Played Gibson Les Pauls all my life since the early 70’s and I got the SG bug. After considering many, many options I ended up with 2 Epiphone SG’s! I know but they have proved to be excellent instrument’s. My favorite is one that you really should look at. It’s got a 3/4” maple top on the mahogany body and neck dive is almost gone. It’s called a SG Modern Figured. Gibson probably has a version of it. I really love it! Good luck my friend! Oh, and welcome to the madness!

 

[Go Nigel Go]

+1 on the advice on adjusting pickup height. I consider it a mandatory step in a good initial player's set up. Once the action and string height is set, I always adjust pickup height and pole pieces to evaluate the pickups. The only pickups I ever replaces were because the output levels were significantly lower than my other guitars. They actually sounded fine and I could adjust the amp to make them sound great, but I wanted to simplify the process of swapping guitars during live shows so I didn't have to constantly readjust levels etc. on stage.

My basic philosophy is that replacing parts should begin with a well defined understanding of the issues at hand to make sure the new parts will actually address them. Just swapping pickups in search of some hypothetical "golden tone" is almost certain to result in wasted time, effort, and money.

 

[papagayo]

Well I was in the same position that you are in. Played Gibson Les Pauls all my life since the early 70’s and I got the SG bug. After considering many, many options I ended up with 2 Epiphone SG’s! I know but they have proved to be excellent instrument’s. My favorite is one that you really should look at. It’s got a 3/4” maple top on the mahogany body and neck dive is almost gone. It’s called a SG Modern Figured. Gibson probably has a version of it. I really love it! Good luck my friend! Oh, and welcome to the madness! View attachment 49147 View attachment 49148

Epiphone use very light wood.

All Epiphone SG copies I played had neck dive issue,

 

[Decadent Dan]

There will be variations of weight that don’t depend on model or manufacturer.
I have a Junior under 6 lbs. and it’s a badass IMO.
My thought on your dilemma going from a LP to an SG, you might prefer the Standard based on the neck joint location.

 

[MR D]

BRO, Get the SG Standard.....and rip out the 490 pickups s soon as you get it ! Put '57 Classics in it and you will be ROCKIN and ROLLIN'....all night long !

 

[Demon Dave]

Oh yeah, I also replaced the metal tuning buttons with pearloid. It took a fair amount of weight off of the headstock, more than I expected. 60g/2.1 ounces.
I got the set of buttons from Hipshot, D-04 - pearloid.

Nice, they have a pearloid replacement buttons even for Grover Rotomatics?

 

[Alanbama]

Epiphone use very light wood.

All Epiphone SG copies I played had neck dive issue,

Well I just weighed my SG’s and the 1961 reissue is approximately 7 lbs and the Modern weighs approximately 9 lbs. So much for light woods, huh? I’ve never had an issue with neck dive on them. Even before I moved the strap button’s which helps a lot! It puts the guitar closer to and a little right of my body. It set’s more like my “Custom Shop” Carvin SC6. That makes transitioning between the two much more natural to me.

 

[MR D]

Get a new 'Modern' series SG Standard, great necks and all ya gotta do is get the 490's out of it and you will be Golden !

 

[peiyuanchao]

Neck dive can almost always be tamed simply by using a nice grippy strap. I use suede backed straps on a very neck heavy/light body SG and it is no problem at all. With a slick Nylon strap it might hit my leg hard enough to leave a mark. The strap solves everything.

As for what model to choose, I always recommend auditioning them in person if at all possible. You can make your list of what you think you want, but trying them out in person may give you a different perspective on components and features you thought were deal breakers. One of the main benefits to me about the SG is precisely that it is different than my Les Paul. I got mine because I needed a backup axe, and it was a super cheap fixer-upper. At first I wasn't thrilled with some aspects of it, but couldn't afford to change it. Now I love it and wouldn't change a thing. It really grew on me.

Thank you sir kindly! I was not a SG person until someone I trust told me it is very underated and flying under the radar for decades - then I played his. fell in love.
I found SG has been growing on me ever since - just by looking at online pictures...

 

[peiyuanchao]

I would add that you should look into Specials as well. There's something special (ugh, I hear the pun) about P90s that's worth looking into. Think about a Junior as well: simple, direct. A used Gibson Classic SG from the oughts is something to look into if you can. Epiphone is producing a version of the Classic presently, which might be a cool little toe-dip into SG-dom without a huge investment. Most of all have fun and play as many different models as you can get your hands on.

Neck dive on an SG is overblown. Just invest in a leather strap with a textured underside and it will never be an issue.

Good perspective, I appreciate you!
I absolutely love P90s - will check it out

 

[peiyuanchao]

Welcome, the SG Standard body is heavier than than the '61 body. Neck strap button is on a better position on the SG Standard.

I have '61 RI and Standard, no neck dive issue, light weight tuners is important IMHO.

Strap buttons position,


View attachment 49137

Great info, many thanks! I actually think the more rounded neck will feel better for me. but that heavy grovers are scary

 

[peiyuanchao]

Well I was in the same position that you are in. Played Gibson Les Pauls all my life since the early 70’s and I got the SG bug. After considering many, many options I ended up with 2 Epiphone SG’s! I know but they have proved to be excellent instrument’s. My favorite is one that you really should look at. It’s got a 3/4” maple top on the mahogany body and neck dive is almost gone. It’s called a SG Modern Figured. Gibson probably has a version of it. I really love it! Good luck my friend! Oh, and welcome to the madness! View attachment 49147 View attachment 49148

beautiful guitars! and thanks for the kind words. this is a great option as I can see, didn't even know this existed!