Neck dive: A permanent solution.

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by SG standard, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. UTGrad

    UTGrad Member

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    Can anyone recommend a specific strap for SG? My local GC has only nylon straps or those big leathers for acoustics.
     
  2. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Well-Known Member

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    Planet Waves cotton web. Stays in place very well, inexpensive. So inexpensive you can do like a lot of people do, mount one permanently on each guitar.

    Tom
     
  3. S.Ustain

    S.Ustain Active Member

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    Excellent OP. There's no need to be defensive discussing head dive with SGs, as it's very real and those who pooh-pooh it simply do not have unbalanced instruments. But it's a well-known phenomenon -- an objective fact, not an opinion. To me, suggestions like the permanent left hand grip or right elbow tuck are laughable. Just wait 'til that one time someone tries to hand you something, etc. It's ridiculous to think that you have to consciously hold a guitar in place because it won't balance. I have a very light weight but very head-heavy SG, and rebalancing it beautifully was tricky but not difficult. Mine's an old instrument, and changing out the beautiful, original gold Grovers (boo hoo) for Tone Pros Klusons (also gold) made a big weight difference. The head is a big, long lever and any weight effects out there are magnified big time. I also added a plastic bag of lead shot in my control cavity. I didn't weight it, but it didn't take much weight, along with the tuner change, to improve the balance a lot. The overall guitar is still very light. Finally, I did what some think is scary: moving the strap button to the tip of the top horn. I determined the right angle for the screw hole to preserve sufficient wood, and it's absolutely rick-solid and not about to split. I'm reasonably skilled, and can easily reverse this if I need to by filling the hole and matching the paint, which is easy for me. But I will not be reversing the fix because, no, I'm not going to get stuck using some high traction strap while I hold up the head with my left hand while pinching the body with my right arm. I'd rather have the perfectly -- perfectly -- balanced guitar these adjustments produced. It hangs right where I want it, is nice and light... ideal.
     
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  4. rotorhead

    rotorhead Well-Known Member

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    Or...things like resting your right arm on the top of the body become second nature and you barely notice it...

    There's a 100 ways to deal with it, many without altering a thing but arm positions, which really is less strenuous than it's made out to be.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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  5. lunchbox

    lunchbox Active Member

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    I use a Levy's 2" cotton strap; no neck dive.

    I do wish they would add 1/4" thickness to the SG body though.
     
  6. Bad Penguin

    Bad Penguin Well-Known Member

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    bar stool.jpg

    Next crisis please......
     
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  7. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Sustain, the problem is a real one and I feel lucky to own a fleet of 11
    guitars and basses with not one neck diver among them. I don't mean to belittle
    the situation by my comments. And I think this forum offers real advice and even
    sympathy most times.

    For me, this whole discussion boils down to two actions a player can take:
    1. Remove weight from the headstock... replace heavy tuners or the heavy buttons.
    2. Move the rear strap button upwards. You have to drill a hole in your prized
    Gibson, but just grit your teeth and do it. Neck dive really upsets my style.

    problem solved... next crisis!

    I don't know why my SGs balance and someone else's doesn't. I'm just grateful
    not to have this problem. I bought my first SG in a music store, and if it had not
    balanced well I would not have bought that one. So I'm glad it did, because it's been
    my favorite guitar for nearly ten years. A humble SG faded special I bought in 2008.

    Play it before you buy it my friends. Not all SGs are head heavy. My first one charmed
    the pants off me by her sweet tones unamplified, her lovely "SG rounded" neck,
    her perfect balance when I attached a strap, and her great tone played in the store through
    amps I could NOT afford. That's the best way to avoid this. Go where they sell them, and
    play as many as they'll let you.

    During the episode I described above, where I installed Grover locking tuners on my
    MIM Telecaster, I struggled with the neck dive for months, unwilling to admit that the
    "upgrade" I had performed was backfiring in my face. This forum was host to many
    neck dive threads as far back as 2008 when I joined, and the issue never goes away.

    And the advice is always the same as in this thread. Over and over. Every month, more.

    One thing no one has mentioned is hanging a fishing weight from the strap at the rear
    of the guitar. I have done this. I used a tear drop shaped lead weight that must have
    weighed half a pound. That did the trick. My Telecaster behaved herself with that
    dangling in the gap between the rear strap and my body.

    But I felt dorky about it of course, and finally admitted that the Grovers had to go.
    *shrugs
    Adding a weight to balance the guitar made it so obvious that only a moron could cling
    to whatever advantages the locking Grovers might have offered.
    I put the stock tuners back on and the guitar balanced perfectly again.
    I use the self locking method of stringing my guitar, and the locking Grovers are
    unnecessary. The Tele tunes up easily and stays that way, in excellent Fender fashion.
    Mexicans know how to make fine guitars... like duh...
    7 onstage_5x6@100.jpg
    I was surprised as hell that an 8 pound Telecaster could be thrown out of balance by
    a set of 6 in line locking Grover tuners, but that's what happened. Leverage, baby...
    I put the offending Grovers on my Epiphone Wilshire replica, and have NO PROBLEMS!
    Go figure. The C/G of the Wilshire must be different than the Telecaster. So they didn't
    go to waste.
    headstock 6@100.jpg
     
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  8. SG standard

    SG standard Well-Known Member

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    Yup, can't beat physics, only join it. Sometimes with a bump. Thanks Gravity.

    Have to admit I'm a little bit jealous of your Wilshire. Just had me searching for them again, seems the current model has the Epiphone 3-aside headstock. The 6-inline headstock design on yours is beautiful. If they make a few more like that I might not be able to resist... :) Glad you found a good use for the tuners too.
     
  9. 67King

    67King Member

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    I have Franklin straps on both of my SG's. It completely solved the problem. They are both 3" ones, one is leather, one is canvas/leather, and they both have suede backs. Not cheap, about $40 each. But definitely worth it.
     
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  10. JCarno

    JCarno Active Member

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    I own 6 from these guys:https://www.italiastraps.com/
    They are a vendor here and all of Alex's forums. Their adds sometimes look like spam but they are 100% for real.
    Watch for sales. They often have 2 for 1 sales or "special" pricing for forum members.
     
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  11. Col Mustard

    Col Mustard Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the good word... I found this one used in a "Music Go Round" hanging on the wall with
    a lot of "unk brand" entry level strat copies and Les Paul copies and some G-310s and shredders of
    dubious pedigree.

    She looked like a college girl in the tank with a bunch of hookers after a harder
    night than she'd planned. I started hearing the bass line to "Rescue Me!" in my head when I looked
    at the Wilshire.

    I had a slide and a pick in my pocket, so I took her down and played her for almost
    thirty minutes, through several used but serviceable amps.. By the end of that time, she was my girl,
    except for some paperwork. My girlfriend named her Skeeter.
    Epi 0917@100.jpg
    Funny how this one balances just fine with the same tuners that upset the Telecaster.
    It's a MIC replica of one that was invented, and built in Kalamazoo at the Gibson plant, circa 1962.
    It's lighter than the Tele as well, weighing about 7 pounds. I've modded it with a Gibson 490R
    and a "Golden Age Overwound" HB, good wiring, Tone Pros bridge & tail, tusq nut and the Grover
    tuners, and she rewards me with excellent tone and action, and perfect balance.
     
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  12. Canadian Caballero

    Canadian Caballero New Member

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    I bought a pretty little Epiphone SG a few years ago, and got my first taste of bad neck dive. After figuring out the mechanics of what was happening, and how I could affect it, I built a custom leather strap that moved the "perceived" suspension point at the rear of the guitar closer to the center of the body, thereby changing the fulcrum. Other than installing Schaller strap locks, I didn't have to modify the guitar at all, or add any weight. Fit and feel are great, and no more neck dive!
    I had posted to a different thread on the same topic, back when I first came up with the idea. Obviously, it's still a problem, seeing the number of posts out there. I realize that this thread is getting old, too; but if it's still relevant to anyone, and you're still looking for a solution, I can post some pictures of my finished product. Let me know.
     
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  13. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    Go ahead, I'm sure you'll make someone's day.

    Here's my "think outside the box" idea on it. I see it two ways.

    Strap behind your belt.

    [​IMG]
    Strap in your belt loop.

    [​IMG]
    I'm sorry if you wear a dress, I don't have a solution for you :smile:
     
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  14. papagayo

    papagayo Well-Known Member

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    What are you doing to have neck dive issue ?

    I have four Gibson SG , no neck dive issue, tuners are light weight, no more.

    Use those tuners on your Gibson SG : Schaller G-Series, Gibson Deluxe, Kluson Deluxe, Kluson Revolution.


    SG Standard TBK 190.jpg


    KLUSON Revolution is the best choice imho.

    SG Standard TBK 212.jpg
     
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  15. Biddlin

    Biddlin Well-Known Member

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    I hope the stitching on those jeans is stronger than the belt loops on mine.
    Using rubber washers for strap locks seems to make the guitar more stable.
     
  16. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

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    I don't do Townshend windmills anymore, I hurt my hand on the chair I'm sitting on if I try them :rofl:
     
  17. Canadian Caballero

    Canadian Caballero New Member

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  18. Canadian Caballero

    Canadian Caballero New Member

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    image000000.jpg image000000_01.jpg Here are a couple of images of the guitar strap I built for my SG that has a problem with neck dive. The strap has a soft, padded garment leather underside, with a latigo topside.
     
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  19. nicolas13

    nicolas13 Member

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    use a guitar strap like this or similar.
    20200114_215755.jpg
    I think it must be made of leather or similar material. with a width of 6.5 cm (2.5 inch), at least so is mine.
    and you'll never have problems with neck diving again
    20200114_220033.jpg

    • :dude::dude:
    sg is perfect, so they try to find things that don't exist to discredit her :D:D :D


    yes I admit I'm not objective
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  20. infield13

    infield13 New Member

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    When I purchase one I ask, I don’t put up with that distraction, had a 2013 Gibson that dove, adios, outa here, best neck I ever played on, I’ve tried every possible solution there is, including the belt loop thing, weights in the control cavity, lighter weight tuners etc, cost me 10 bucks to get a belt loop sewn back on, lol... Nope won’t put up with it anymore, have weeded them out and now have 2 Epi SG’s that are perfectly balanced....
     
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