Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by Tom Dickinson, Jun 15, 2021.
Yeah @Biddlin needs to grow up or get back to kindergarten
No photos nor confirmation that OP did anything besides fiddle with the bridge. I'm standing by my assumption that something else was off with the setup, rather than that a brand new guitar was manufactured incorrectly. As much as people like to complain about Gibson's QA/QC, there are still standard practices that everyone should take with their guitars, ESPECIALLY NEW ONES, before blaming the manufacturer. A $100 visit to a tech could have solved this issue on Day One. Or not. If his replacement is also screwy, I hope for his sake he takes it to a professional.
Been at this 20 years. Buying guitars online is a slippery slope of hopes and what-ifs. Nothing compares to feeling an instrument your hands. The magic isn't in the product line or the model or the brand... it's in the connection between you and the individual instrument.
Unlikely a setup would fix intonation being beyond the adjustable range unless he had the action set super high. Relief couldn't make that significant a difference unless the neck was badly bowed. And needless to say, Gibson shouldn't be sending out guitars with bowed necks and high action if that's the case. That said, I agree that everyone who doesn't do their own work should get a setup on any new guitar.
More like "how you find the guitar that happens to have the nicest setup". I've bought a bunch of guitars sight unseen and all they needed was a setup. Most "dogs" in a shop just need the same.
Yup. I love checking out the used guitars wherever I go. Odds are good if it was owned by a player who fine tuned the set up over a period of years it won't matter what brand or model it is, that will be the one that plays the best. I have played $300 guitars that rocked the socks off other guitars on the wall costing many times that figure. In all cases the difference is what was done (or not done) after the instruments left the factory that leads to a standout axe.
The other great thing about purchasing second hand guitars is that some will already have whisky dents, so accidentally adding a few more in the future doesn’t sting as much compared to the first one on a new guitar.
When you contacted Gibson and described in detail (as you did in your original post) what the instrument's issues were, the message you delivered was perceived to be coming from someone who is articulate and knows the geometry and mechanics of guitars. A guitar whose action cannot be adjusted because of physical limits, and also cannot be "intonated", is an incorrectly built one. Glad to hear that they agreed to accept it for repair or replacement. I've had dealings with them when my '68 SG Standard needed a neck reset back in 2006 because of a sideways fall which broke the glue bond at the body joint, they repaired it. It wasn't cheap and took 8 weeks to get it back, but they do fine work. Your return (in warranty) should be done at no cost to you, including the shipping return. Let us know how it went, and Good Luck!
If you'd read what the OP wrote, it should have been obvious that he knew what he was talking about. Mr. Dickinson wasn't being "picky". He was sold what should have been an abortion. A "proper setup" is impossible to perform on said guitar. It is indeed a sad state of affairs when spending $1,400 is considered cheap, and a customer should have no expectation of receiving a quality item at that price level. If you'd said that to me, I'd have set fire to that guitar and launched it up some place on your anatomy where the sun don't shine.
Actually warranty work shipping is at the owners cost. Non-warranty repairs get free shipping. Of course it’s wrapped up in the repair pricing. Nothing is free.
I think, perhaps, you misinterpreted my message. Many of my comments were broad and not specific to the OP, but rather observations with Gibson and guitar purchasers in general. No disrespect intended to anyone. Including yourself
On that matter, I think you perhaps are the one posting comments a bit sharper than necessary. I am grateful I didn’t make those comments to yourself, because as you said, you would have sent a flaming guitar up my arse.
Not sure my comment warranted that…
Funny how the dung tossers are accusing everyone else. You wouldn't believe the completely illogical response I got for reporting a personal insult from someone with whom I've never had interaction.
5 paragraphs and not a single photo???
I smell a Fender sh!tposting conspiracy!
I suspect it was a monday morning or a friday afternon made SG Junior...
Careful, PermissionToPost might get upset.
Seeing as how the bodies are done by CNC, the chances of the bridge location being off are infinitesimal.
Biddlin is a cool guy - I've learnt a lot from him about SGs over many years. OK, he can be grumpy, but he knows his stuff and has added hugely to this forum.
Yeah, the opening post was a bit whiny, bu we've all been there, and at 70 years old and buying a new Gibson, he has every right to be.
I'm open to all ideas here because we haven't seen or handled the guitar.
But, the fact remains: on a Junior/Special if the neck isn't set right then you are f%^k3d.
(Of course, that can move once it's outside the factory, so it isn't always Gibson's fault.)
I was thinking about SGs, as you do, and the years 2011/2012 (owned one), 2013 (owned one), 2016 (wish I owned one, especially the P90 standard with batwing...), 2018 (owned one), 2019 (own one)... have been pretty good guitars, imho.
But, they are not perfect and do have issues (the Gibson lightening bridge, imho, is rubbish, always has been and always will be, especially when not properly sun k into the body like most years since its introduction...).
I will just say that a guitar that can not be intonated using the provided adjustments is a problem. If that is the case as stated in the original post, Gibson needs to be aware of it and do something about it.
That said, intonation adjustments are a part of the overall set up process, by which I mean there is a certain basic level of understanding of guitar geometry and the order of steps and checks that are necessary to do the job correctly. If you don't understand the process it is entirely possible to get farther out of adjustment with every change rather than closer to correct.
My first recommendation to someone having trouble setting up a new Gibson guitar would be to make sure they understand the process. It isn't super difficult, but you do have to do things correctly and understand and verify the desired results of each adjustment before moving on to the next step. I would assume that Gibson would verify some of this knowledge with the owner before issuing a return authorization, so there may indeed be a problem with this guitar. CNC does not preclude errors, it just means the machine will precisely follow the instructions given without any judgment or care for the final results. As such, if someone grabbed the wrong body, or instructed the wrong dimensions, it is still possible an error could occur. It is just more likely for an error to occur with the end user making the adjustments, so that should be ruled out first.
There is a huge assumption here - that Gibson's aim is a fine guitar. It isn't. Gibson's duty as a limited liability company is to maximise profits to its shareholders. Every extra process is another few bucks off that bottom line and Gibson, like every company, has to find a balance between the cost of production and the cost of warranty. It has, and this is the result. Gibson's business is gluing together bits of wood and drilling holes in them. Time and time again it has proved this to be a sloppy, hit and miss process. And I guarantee that all the crap happens wherever there is handwork.
A well-run automated machine line is the key to quality. And of course, stop making the stupid things out of wood. That is a disaster waiting to happen.
This is how the model works
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