New to forums, and would like a bit of help dating a late 60's/early 70's dark walnut finish SG

[djmaher]

Hello from Portland, Oregon.

I'm new to this forum, and I'm wondering if someone would be able to help me date a older SG for a friend. It's probably an early 70s guitar, and, all things considered, it's in fantastic condition.

They would like to sell it, and I'm trying to get as much info as I can for them. And, of course, I have tons of questions myself. I just want to make sure I do right by them, and give them honest, realistic information about what they have. Then they can decide what avenue to pursue for selling it.

N E 1 care to give me a hand? I can share everything I have, and maybe we can trade information?

Thanks,

Dave

 

[Rusty Chops]

Welcome!

Seventies SG’s in walnut stain are all over the map.

Some were great. I had a S-200. Not so great.

Pics needed.

 

[djmaher]

Welcome!

Seventies SG’s in walnut stain are all over the map.

Some were great. I had a S-200. Not so great.

Pics needed.

 

[djmaher]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I will have to downsize the photographs that I have taken in order to post them on the forum.

Short Vibro. Two P90 pickups. Large pickguard but not the bat wing. Body is clean with no dents or divots. No checking that I can see, but I'm not sure if this is a nitro or poly finish. CTS pots that appear to be originals. Neck is straight with a small volute at the headstock. Wiring appears to be original although I don't know what that would connotate. If it's original wiring, the solder job is totally crap. Witchhat knob s. Will provide more info in a bit. Hopefully with some lower res pictures.

 

[djmaher]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I will have to downsize the photographs that I have taken in order to post them on the forum.

Short Vibro. Two P90 pickups. Large pickguard but not the bat wing. Body is clean with no dents or divots. No checking that I can see, but I'm not sure if this is a nitro or poly finish. CTS pots that appear to be originals. Neck is straight with a small volute at the headstock. Wiring appears to be original although I don't know what that would connotate. If it's original wiring, the solder job is totally crap. Witchhat knob s. Will provide more info in a bit. Hopefully with some lower res pictures.

Sorry, I neglected to ask what the maximum limit is as to resolution for photographs. Or what is the recommended resolution. Also, might you offer suggestions as to what you would like to see in the photographs, that would be helpful in making some determinations as to age?

 

[Rusty Chops]

I’m just a guest.

I would guess when I post a pic I choose the about 480K (middle choice) direct from my iPhone or iPad.

Pic of at least the body. Headstock too if possible.

You could also search google for “seventies SG guitar” and hit “images.”

 

[djmaher]

Welcome!

Seventies SG’s in walnut stain are all over the map.

Some were great. I had a S-200. Not so great.

Pics

I’m just a guest.

I would guess when I post a pic I choose the about 480K (middle choice) direct from my iPhone or iPad.

Pic of at least the body. Headstock too if possible.

You could also search google for “seventies SG guitar” and hit “images.”

Here are a few for starters

 

[Rusty Chops]

That’s a great one!
Possibly even a sought after vintage type guitar.

I don’t follow the vintage market so can’t really advise you much.
Google images will help you identify more accurately, and you’ll see similar guitars to that one selling on Reverb, etc.
You can get a feel for market value of that era/model.

I’D like it!

 

[cerebral gasket]

SG Special
That style with batwing was produced from 1966-71.
Volute and Made in USA stamp indicate 1970-71.

If pots original, pot codes will indicate earliest date.

Pot Code Format
137YYDD

137 = CTS
YY =Year
DD = Day of Year

 

[Go Nigel Go]

I'm not an expert, but I am going to go out on a limb and say 1971-72 SG standard/special based on the pickguard, dot inlays, and lack of any discernible bevels in the cutaway areas. That one looks very un-molested and might be pretty interesting to someone looking for those years. Sadly, those years don't get a lot of love, but some of us still rather like them. They play just fine and usually won't bust the budget of a working musician looking for an older instrument to love and care for More pictures will help determine how original it is, but that looks pretty original to me.

 

[3bolt79]

Welcome from Springfield Oregon. We really need pics under the pick guard. Pics of pot dates, pickups. Also pics where neck joins body, back of headstock and Volute.

You might want to consign it or have it appraised at McKenzie River Music in Eugene.

 

[cerebral gasket]

I'm not an expert, but I am going to go out on a limb and say 1971-72 SG standard/special based on the pickguard, dot inlays, and lack of any discernible bevels in the cutaway areas.

1971 was the last year for SG Specials with these features. In 1972, SG Specials got Mini Humbuckers and small guard.

Standards never had dots, only trapezoids up until 1971 and then small blocks. Standards also never had P-90's until 2012 and 2016.

 

[djmaher]

I'm not an expert, but I am going to go out on a limb and say 1971-72 SG standard/special based on the pickguard, dot inlays, and lack of any discernible bevels in the cutaway areas. That one looks very un-molested and might be pretty interesting to someone looking for those years. Sadly, those years don't get a lot of love, but some of us still rather like them. They play just fine and usually won't bust the budget of a working musician looking for an older instrument to love and care for More pictures will help determine how original it is, but that looks pretty original to me.

To whit...

Bevels on front sides of both cutaways. No bevels on the backsides of either cutaway.

Body has no significant marring to speak of, EXCEPT for the semi circle across the lower bout from the wammy bar (they do line up, unfortunately) Is this body nitro, by any chance? For 50yrs old, there not a mark on it.

Gibson serial # 951924. Made in USA impression. #2 impression indicating a "second" underneath both of those.

CTS pots. At least 3 of the 4 are # 1377040. October 1970. 500Ks. Cavity wiring looks kind of funky to me. Not sure what the loom is supposed to look like.

"Squared" edges Pearl inlay logo, with dot over the "I" No openings in either the "b" or the "o" '70 to '72?

I have yet to open the pickup cavity for inspection. Will do when restringing. (old strings appear to have silk at the ball end, that is now on top of the Vibro, but worn.) Not sure if that's there to minimize scratching on the Vibro, or just the strings of the time. I have some round wound Gibson strings(vintage new release Les Pauls or something or other) that I was going to use to test operation. Any advice as to potential issues with restring and the Vibro would be appreciated. I dont want to screw it up and/or damage it. Did the silk protect against scratching or string hangup on the Vibro?

Does anyone know where the Gibson FON might be impressed on this guitar?

Fingerboard is dry but not damaged. Neck is straight. Truss rod cavity is clean with no visible rust. Did not try to move it. Frets are wide and kind of "flat" Not sure what the standard was then. Fret ends are perfectly smooth. Strings are 13s. (13-59, measured) Wound strings are actually unwinding LOL

More photos below.

Thank you so much for advice and opinions.

Dave

 

[Rusty Chops]

Fortunately this thread has now attracted members who know what is what.
Looking fwd, with interest!

 

[MR D]

To whit...

Bevels on front sides of both cutaways. No bevels on the backsides of either cutaway.

Body has no significant marring to speak of, EXCEPT for the semi circle across the lower bout from the wammy bar (they do line up, unfortunately) Is this body nitro, by any chance? For 50yrs old, there not a mark on it.

Gibson serial # 951924. Made in USA impression. #2 impression indicating a "second" underneath both of those.

CTS pots. At least 3 of the 4 are # 1377040. October 1970. 500Ks. Cavity wiring looks kind of funky to me. Not sure what the loom is supposed to look like.

"Squared" edges Pearl inlay logo, with dot over the "I" No openings in either the "b" or the "o" '70 to '72?

I have yet to open the pickup cavity for inspection. Will do when restringing. (old strings appear to have silk at the ball end, that is now on top of the Vibro, but worn.) Not sure if that's there to minimize scratching on the Vibro, or just the strings of the time. I have some round wound Gibson strings(vintage new release Les Pauls or something or other) that I was going to use to test operation. Any advice as to potential issues with restring and the Vibro would be appreciated. I dont want to screw it up and/or damage it. Did the silk protect against scratching or string hangup on the Vibro?

Does anyone know where the Gibson FON might be impressed on this guitar?

Fingerboard is dry but not damaged. Neck is straight. Truss rod cavity is clean with no visible rust. Did not try to move it. Frets are wide and kind of "flat" Not sure what the standard was then. Fret ends are perfectly smooth. Strings are 13s. (13-59, measured) Wound strings are actually unwinding LOL

More photos below.

Thank you so much for advice and opinions.

Dave

I was waiting for the serial#, so thanks for that....its pre 1975 for sure....the detectives at ETSG will know what year it is......GIBSON might NOT know what year its from based on serial#'s.....IDK when they exactly started cataloguing serial#'s but that there SG looks the part....3 to the strip TM's appear original....looks pretty SWEET !
I'd put some linseed oil on the Fretboard is all, and set of strings.....they are fetching around $2G's +/- buck or two these days........ if you are selling it.

 

[njpaulc]

Looks like a very late '69 (when did they start the volute?) to '71. Two general questions, when did they stop putting the "brass ashtray" in the controll cavity for grounding? And, since I don't remember, when did they start the using walnut finish? I want to say the guitar is a '71, because the headstock looks to be on the larger size.

 

[jonnyfez]

Here are a few for starters

That's a gorgeous Special in amazing shape. I'd be making them an offer if I were you. I'd expect that to sell from anywhere between $2500 and $4000.

 

[cerebral gasket]

Looks like a very late '69 (when did they start the volute?) to '71.

1969 does not have volute or Made in USA stamp.
Also the pot codes are 1970.
It's a 1970 or 71.

 

[Decadent Dan]

Dinner and a movie?

 

[djmaher]

New photos after restring w/ Gibson Vintage Reissue 10s. Never restrung a Vibro before, so I was a bit concerned how the ball ends of the strings would sit. They have not popped out yet. Ant advice on the matter would be appreciated.

Pickup cavity is clean, with no markings or stamps.

Tuners are really rough to turn. Lubricant has probably dried out. and hardened a bit.

Strings are running into each other a bit on the peghead. Pegs are not bent. Nut probably needs replacing.

Frets are pretty flat. Wide and flat. Bridge is a bit notched. Needs a bit of TLC, but not too much. High E sits a bit too inward from the edge for my taste, but manageable, not horrible.

Right now, how the string ball ends are sitting probably my biggest concern. Not sure if it matters how they sit in the space provided.