NGD, :(

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by iluvcrap2000, Jun 12, 2021.

  1. iluvcrap2000

    iluvcrap2000 New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2021
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    2
    So got new 2021 SG standard, Guitar looks better than the pictures on Sweetwater which is a plus (Their photos often suck), Came with the bridge set up really high, don't know why, the pictures show it low. otherwise was intonated well. Was curious so I took the back cover off and what do I see? a PCB!? Really? The original collection of 61's, juniors and Specials have handwired and orange drop caps, the **** I was Disappointed! A PCB! with .22 cube caps, Bah! Does anyone know if the 2020's use a PCB as well? The guitar plays and sounds good, so Can't complain about that. Nothing wrong with the body after a close look.
     
  2. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2020
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    309
    Just give it a good set up and play the heck out of it. Things like bridge height, intonation, pickup height adjustments etc. are well within the means of any marginally skilled owner. To me they don't even qualify as "issues", just part of getting a new axe.

    As for the PCB vs point to point wiring, the only time it makes a difference is when you have to make repairs. If as you say it sounds great, that pretty much confirms what I have long suspected, which is that the "tone fanboys" are way off the mark in criticizing what is effectively just a different method of mounting electronic hardware. There should be no drawbacks to any properly functioning electrical circuit, and the only way you will know what you have is to take the cover off. Electrons don't care what color capacitors they flow through. Changing values and circuit design can make a difference, and that is slightly easier to do on a point to point layout, but that's about it. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE point to point wiring, but I don't insist on it. I have plenty of gear that is based on PCB design and it works just fine so long as the design is good to start with. Don't sweat the small stuff based solely on internet chatter. In my experience the internet only has at best a 20% success rate when it comes to giving good information.
     
  3. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,819
    Likes Received:
    7,383
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    You sound pretty generous this week-end :)
     
    neoclassical and Go Nigel Go like this.
  4. Dangerhouse77

    Dangerhouse77 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    45
    I have a 2019 SG Standard that has the PCB as well. Like you I was disappointed since my 19 SG Jr was hand wired. After I set the Standard up and played I forgot all about the PCB. Don’t worry about it and just play. If something does go wrong in there then it’s a chance to switch it out to hand wired. Happy new guitar day!
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
    Demon Dave, Go Nigel Go and DrBGood like this.
  5. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    627
    Location:
    Sweden
    Although what needs to be said about the functionality has been said I can understand the slight disappointment because I too would feel that way. A circuit board just doesn't feel right and I'd throw it out at the earliest or it would irritate the hell out of me.
     
    Nathan Martin and Bettyboo like this.
  6. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,819
    Likes Received:
    7,383
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    Sorry if this pisses off some of you (no ... not sorry), but it deeply pains me to hear such distaste/hate for perfectly good "new" technology, just because it "doesn't look good", "doesn't feel right". When I read of that kind of thinking, this is the image that comes to me.

    .jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
    Voxman, SatansGwitar, Biddlin and 4 others like this.
  7. Worblehat

    Worblehat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    417
    Congratulations! You found a guitar that sounds good and plays good. Awesome. Keep it and play it.
    Get over the PCB-thing. I don't get why this bothers so many people. It does not make the guitar feel, sound or look any different. I have a 2019 SG Standard and I don't mind the PCB. Actually I like it that I might be able to switch pickups without any soldering due to the quick connect system.
     
    fos1, Go Nigel Go and DrBGood like this.
  8. Dangerhouse77

    Dangerhouse77 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    45
    For me I guess one positive thing about the PCB is that it made me get to know the guitar. Adjusting pick up height etc to get the sound I wanted. Not the usual “oh these pots suck, swap them out” that then lead to”well it must be the caps, swap em out” and usually then various pickup swaps. So in a way the PCB saved me money and taught me more because I couldn’t be bothered to rewire a new guitar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
    Biddlin, Go Nigel Go and DrBGood like this.
  9. Steve D

    Steve D Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2019
    Messages:
    523
    Likes Received:
    546
    I had an SG with a PC Board and mini humbuckers. I considered swapping to P-90s I understand that PC boards limit the amount of modding you can do and even the thought of swapping pickups becomes an exercise in "how do I get the jumpers onto the new pickups? Or should I cut them off the PC board? And if so which wire does what?" The wiring on the PC board is still all passive analog, it's jut etched on a board rather than requiring solder connections. But you can't change those etched lines.

    This was the downside of the PC board for me, not that it was pre-wired on a board. It sounded great and the components were good, I loved the taper on the tone pots it came with way more than the one on my custom shop SG. But swapping pickups was the head scratcher.
     
  10. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2020
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    309
    Components on a PCB are soldered in. There are some additional skills to soldering on a board, but it is essentially the same process with a few extra steps. You can swap any components you like by removing the entire assembly, desoldering the old components from the board, soldering in the new ones, and then re installing the electronics. You need access to both sides of the board to replace components.

    As Dangerhouse stated above, the extra steps will kind of make you think twice before you start hacking around in there, but thinking before modding should be a welcome addition to the process in my opinion. :naughty:
     
  11. DrBGood

    DrBGood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,819
    Likes Received:
    7,383
    Location:
    Sutton Québec
    You're kidding, right ?
     
    Biddlin and Go Nigel Go like this.
  12. alex1fly

    alex1fly Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2020
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    55
    Same. Don't make something a problem before it's a problem.
     
    Go Nigel Go, Biddlin and DrBGood like this.
  13. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2020
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    309
    I don't know, just a ku-razy idea I had kicking around loose looking for a place to land... :D
     
    Biddlin and DrBGood like this.
  14. madhermit

    madhermit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    50
    If it hasn’t been said already, I think only the ‘Original’ series come with the hand-wired/orange drop capacitor wiring.
    The “modern” series has the pcb.
    Not 100% on that as I didn’t check all the models, but that seems to be one of the features of the Original series models.
    It’s one of the ways Gibson sells the Modern series Standard for $300 less MSRP than the Original series 61 Standard.

    For what it is worth, my 2018 SG Standard has the pcb, and it plays and sounds excellent! If for some reason I needed to change it, I would, but it’s fine the way it is.
     
    rotorhead likes this.
  15. Von Trapp

    Von Trapp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    627
    Location:
    Sweden


    Well, there's no accounting for taste but this is the image that comes to my mind:

    board.JPG
     
  16. iamjoemadden

    iamjoemadden New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yea.. first thing I did with mine was rip that crap outta there.

    Out with the new...
    [​IMG]

    In with the old...
    [​IMG]

    Made a difference in overall tone. She really sounds alive now. Night and Day.
     
    Chuteboxehero and MacDiarmada like this.
  17. johnny1423

    johnny1423 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    my 2020 has hand wired
     
  18. MacDiarmada

    MacDiarmada New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2021
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    22
    I’m a purist, of sorts. I feel like a PCB in an SG, even though you can’t see it, just takes away from what an SG is. On the other hand, I get it, Gibson is just keeping with the times.
     
  19. Go Nigel Go

    Go Nigel Go Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2020
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    309
    Let me start by saying that is a nice job of point to point wiring, looks very tidy and I like it.

    Regarding the sound however, I would not expect any change in sound unless the values of the components were changed. Do you happen to recall what the old values vs the new values were? It is fine if you want to make changes, and I applaud the quality of your work, but I am beyond just highly skeptical that the difference you are reporting can be traced to anything in the control cavity other than component values, or possibly a faulty part on the original electronics. Electrons behave the same in a wire or the conductor path on a PCB. Assuming the circuit design and component values (and state of health) are the same, the sound should also be the same. There are so many variable in guitar tone and response, it is very easy to focus on one aspect alone and overlook a host of other variables outside of the control cavity responsible for a change in sound.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
    Pageburst likes this.
  20. madhermit

    madhermit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    50
    Out of curiousity…

    Is yours an Original series like the SG Standard 61, or a Modern series just called an SG Standard? The specs for the modern series don’t seem to indicate hand-wiring like the Original series are.

    I think they changed the Original series to hand-wiring when it was launched halfway through 2019.
     

Share This Page