Putting A PC together.........

Discussion in 'Recording Studio' started by vic108, Dec 1, 2007.

  1. Red devil

    Red devil Member

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    1way: Is raid 0 the data security one or is that raid 1? I think one of the may be better than the other performance wise.

    And you are right about having more than one drive. Another thing to consider is density: a drive 160GB and up is a high density drive and will usually have better speed than a drive under that size.
     
  2. vic108

    vic108 Well-Known Member

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    Rosewill Stallion Series 600w OK then?
    or on the puney side?
     
  3. vkgphil

    vkgphil Active Member

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    yeah 600 ought to suffice. you doing sata drives? if you are make sure that power supply has two connectors then, otherwise you will have to get a y splitter.
     
  4. 1Way

    1Way Active Member

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    power supply
    Yep, a 600watt ps should be more than enough, but if it's a questionable build/unit, it could be an issue, especially with more than one hard drive as well as a nice video card and all. But for now I wouldn't worry about that being undersized, nice power user choice.

    raid
    Yep red D, raid zero is for speed, and raid 1 is for safety. Raid 0 is double the information input/output highway, but the functional benefit only happens if your pc is not doing multiple hard drive I/O calls at (virtually) the same time, but unfortunately, your pc does alot of multi-tasking the way it is, and so reading and writing to the hard drive has been a known bottleneck for PC's for a long time. Throw on top of that a somewhat I/O intensive multi-media program like audio or video processing and you end up benefitting much better by segregating two or more hard drives from each other by putting the OS on one HD and the media processing intensive program on the other. I've been told that is "the" way to do it. Better is three hard drives where the third handles massive swap file duties, but I'm not sure which swap file to put there...

    Here's a run down that I believe might be the better 3 hd setup.

    1 - OS
    2 - Audio Programs
    3 - swap files and storage

    Two hard drives seems rather forthright
    1 - OS plus it's swap file
    2 - Audio programs plus their swap files, then put storage files on whichever hard drive has more percentage of room left unused.

    Tip
    Files that are not being used tend to not slow down your PC except for one thing, the more you fill up your hard drives, the slower they run. So get more hard drives to speed up your system for multimedia intensive uses.

    3 hard drives
    I wouldn't know which swap file to put on the 3rd drive, probably the audio program as you likely can easily find a smallish drive for your OS and it's swap file and be fine, but some experimentation might be called for. I don't believe you would want both the OS and the program swap files located on the same hard drive. That would likely be creating an I/O bottleneck problem.

    When you are recording, the OS and the studio Program is doing serious intensive I/O processing and writing to the hard drive(s). That is why you DO NOT want to use your pc for playing your backing tracks at the same time you are also recording, because then you are both reading AND writing on very possibly on the same hard drive, and that is a very good way to create more I/O bottlenecks and create problems.

    So as a general rule, (1) you want to streamline the tasks (separate the OS from the programs) and (2) diminish what you are asking your (*)PC to do when you are doing intensive multimedia processing. It's just the nature of the beast at this point in the game. Someday we will have are antiquated hard drives replaced by much faster solid state RAM like devices. But that's down the road and likely too expensive for a while.
    (*)Do not "record" and also "play" music at the same time from you PC, especially from the same harddrive. If you are using your PC's DVD/CD player to play them, that might not be a big problem but it will likely over use the CPU and perhaps the sound card, hard to say.

    Having more than one hard drive is a very good idea. Having three is likely still more beneficial, it is better than 2 although your benefit to cost ratio starts diminishing after you are up to 3 hard drives, so folks tend to not talk about having 4 hard drives, unless your cutting edge and money is no problem.

    Lastly, yep, for your OS hard drive, you may only need a somewhat smaller one, lets say a 40-60 gig'er, because the OS and it's associated swap file may only take up 15-25 gig depending upon the sorts of things you do with it, like is this PC only used for audio/video studio work, or is it also the main home PC. I could be totally wrong about on this figure, :D PC geeks please verify. A really good idea is to not fill any hard drive up too much. The less on a hard drive, the faster it runs, plus its easier to defrag.
    ;)
     
  5. ESSER

    ESSER Active Member

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    [quote author=1Way link=topic=15748.msg207826#msg207826 date=1205013969]


    When you are recording, the OS and the studio Program is doing serious intensive I/O processing and writing to the hard drive(s). That is why you DO NOT want to use your pc for playing your backing tracks at the same time you are also recording, because then you are both reading AND writing on very possibly on the same hard drive, and that is a very good way to create more I/O bottlenecks and create problems.


    [/quote]


    Dunno about the rest there, but I record and play backing tracks at the same time and everything is ok, my PC is a right bucket too.
     
  6. kick

    kick Member

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    what's with the sparks, esser, in your sig?
     
  7. vkgphil

    vkgphil Active Member

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    somethings are best left unsaid
     
  8. ESSER

    ESSER Active Member

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    [quote author=kick link=topic=15748.msg207844#msg207844 date=1205025285]
    what's with the sparks, esser, in your sig?
    [/quote]

    I am learning to dance like Russ.
     
  9. 1Way

    1Way Active Member

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    ESSER, you've got a point, so perhaps I should stipulate that there are some general rules that don't always apply as the case may be. I have done the same thing you mention with a reasonable slight lag time delay (small latency) as a result, but I'm runing raid 0 and have (had) a half decent PC,,, well, I did last year anyway, plus I have a Presonus firewire interface which is nice.

    You can get away with what you can get away with, very true. Plus I'm not correct on everything, so maybe I am overstating things, hope not. Perhaps more info will help the matter. Also perhaps I was accidentally remembering more concerned about video studio for PC when I was trying to improve my PC... It's been a while and I don't currently have my PC due to (lets just say) woman problems. :roll:

    So, are you also processing your guitar signal or is it going into the PC already sounding good enough so that you don't have to do much with it prior to recording?
    What OS do you use, a Mac/Apple or PC/IBM clone?
    Do you use the sound card for sound input, or what sort of input device allows you to plug your guitar signal into the PC?
    Generally speaking, how well does the recordings work out for you.

    Learning is good!
     
  10. ESSER

    ESSER Active Member

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    sup 1way


    I just use a line out of the amp into the pc and record using wavelab4 while playing back in the same program.

    No issues, except for how many tracks i can lay on a montage before i have to render due to drop out.

    usually I get the drum track and rhythm guitar down , then the bass. by this time it drops out , but then i just put the lead and vocs on that then.

    does me ok. not a pro job by any stretch and i dont know that much (or really care to be honest) about computers and such. I do have Cubase SX here but i am too stupid to use it ;D
     
  11. Spunky

    Spunky Active Member

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    I am totally bummed......
    I updated to Vista Business 64 bit as I don't want all the stupid bells and whistles of Vista Ultimate. I wanted lean and mean 64 bit but now my Nuendo 3 doesn't work.
    I have to wait for the new key that works with Vista 64 bit..no ETA...

    I sure hope Cool Edit Pro works or I'm really screwed.....Vista 64 bit is so fast it is insane but there are tradeoffs...
    I'm running an Intel 6750 at 2.66 and a 1333 FSB and 4 GB RAM with 1 Terabyte of storage across 2, 500 GB HDs.
    Photoshop CS3 loads in less than 2 seconds now...RAID...who needs RAID...muwahhaahaaa
     
  12. kick

    kick Member

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    did you overwrite with Vista or do you erase software first before plugging in Vista?
     
  13. Spunky

    Spunky Active Member

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    Kick,

    Go to the microsoft.com site. They have a matrix for O/S installations/upgrades and what has to happen.
    In the case of a Vista 64 bit install, it always has to be a clean install.....
     
  14. kick

    kick Member

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    my os is Vista installed.

    i have no desire to change much of anything cuz changes happens naturally ;D
     
  15. 1Way

    1Way Active Member

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    What our friend Spunkmire is raving about, is how it is that his new 64bit OS is way fast, as prior OS's are 32 bit. Meaning that on a software level, its,,, perhaps twice as fast, or has twice the dataflow, but I'm probably not quite saying it right.

    However when you make that large of a leap, it often requires your favorite user programs (i.e. music studio, etc) to create 64bit versions, so he's mostly stuck without the use of them until they come out with new 64bit versions.

    Spunky, hasn't the MS folk learned from the user friendly popularity via Apple's camp where they include a decent no frills music studio program (garage band) and provide something cool like that for the PC? They have a video editing program that came with antiquated XP for goodness sakes already. Here's wishing you the best for doing audio in the mean time...

    But having things like nuendo or cool edit pro would be the bomb. Perhaps you need to beg borrow or steel a secondary 32bit PC if you can't wait however long it may be for the 64bit versions, plus (if you have a hardware interface) don't forget you (may) need the user appropriate 64bit hardware drivers as well(!). I'm fairly certain I'm telling you nothing you don't already know/understand. I'm simply keeping your best in mind (as quickly as possible!), and for general information.
     
  16. 1Way

    1Way Active Member

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    [quote author=ESSER link=topic=15748.msg207907#msg207907 date=1205107488]
    sup 1way


    (1) I just use a line out of the amp into the pc and record using wavelab4 while playing back in the same program.

    (2) No issues, except for how many tracks i can lay on a montage before i have to render due to drop out.

    (3) usually I get the drum track and rhythm guitar down , then the bass. by this time it drops out , but then i just put the lead and vocs on that then.

    does me ok. not a pro job by any stretch and i dont know that much (or really care to be honest) about computers and such. I do have Cubase SX here but i am too stupid to use it ;D

    [/quote]

    1 - Please elaborate "I just use a line out of the amp into the pc". What cable or interface and port do you use that goes into the PC? One might assume that you are going thru a simple 1/8" stereo line out cord (or whatever you UK folks use :roll:) into the sound card of some sort, but not for sure. Sounds simple and effective. It's good to see musicians using other than expensive or cutting edge hardware "getting er done"!

    2 - Exactly the concern, thanks for point that out. The more tracks your dealing with, the more processing goes on, the more likely drop outs might start to occure. Therefore it really does pay to streamline the hardware (and software configuration) that you already have. Helps make life easier by the time your dealing with multi tracks including software sound shaping.

    3 - Of course if and whenever the time avails itself ;) , I would be interested in hearing more about the "practicle use" of a home PC recording studio. Because I believe it could help bolster other budding musicans do the same. But another topic thread might become a better location. I am all too often going down tangents and don't want to ascew my friend Veek! :shocked:
     
  17. ESSER

    ESSER Active Member

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    hi dwayne

    the line out thing is just a regular guitar lead from the line out of the VOX30VT into the mic socket of the pc.

    heres the sort of results i get with it. theres better examples where i mess with channels and stuff.


    http://www.box.net/shared/90nollz8ks


    and yeppers this is Vics PC tune up thread indeed.
     
  18. SG Steve

    SG Steve Member

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    [quote author=vic108 link=topic=15748.msg207818#msg207818 date=1204995374]
    Rosewill Stallion Series 600w OK then?
    or on the puney side?
    [/quote]

    Dont get Rosewill stuff. It's just neweggs "house brand"...The stuff is cheaply made and they constantly fail because of the sub-standard componets. The "egg" prices the rosewill stuff so cheap it's tempting, but after you send that psu back for the third time (and pay shipping) it's not as good a deal if you would of bought a better known and established name like coolermaster, pc power & cooling or even antec..

    My second love besides guitar is computer games, and I build all my own stuff and my friends as well. I also do tech/trouble shooting at my job- anything I can do to save someone else some grief that I have experienced, I will. Good luck...
     
  19. vic108

    vic108 Well-Known Member

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    OK, I've done a few upgrades but was wondering where my system may be lacking:


    Acer 22" widescreen LCD monitor

    INTEL E6600 2.4GHz CORE 2 DUO CPU
    (Started with Intel Single Core 3.0 then went to a Pentium D 3.2)

    Intel LGA 775 945GC motherboard

    Corsair XMS2 2 x 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 memory

    XFX GeForce 8600GT 512MB 128-bit video card

    Logitech G15 gaming keyboard (Thanks Ellen!)

    Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 - 250GB hard drive

    Sony NEC Optiarc 20X DVD±R DVD burner

    Rosewill Stallion Series 600W power supply

    Rosewill R604-P ATX mid tower case

    Logisys 12" Dual Cold Cathode Blue Light Kit

    Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX®-Certified 200 watt speakers

    OS: Windows XP Pro SP2


    should I get a better VIDEO CARD or MOTHERBOARD or WHAT????
    my board now is maxed out at 2 gigs memory
     
  20. vic108

    vic108 Well-Known Member

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    [quote author=Spunky link=topic=15748.msg207926#msg207926 date=1205112240]

    I'm running an Intel 6750 at 2.66 and a 1333 FSB and 4 GB RAM with 1 Terabyte of storage across 2, 500 GB HDs.
    Photoshop CS3 loads in less than 2 seconds now...RAID...who needs RAID...muwahhaahaaa

    [/quote]

    Spunk, so what's up with your set up? Sounds damn fast.
    If not RAID - what then?
     

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