Replace KB Tremolo

PermissionToLand

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what in the world epiphone is that? did the kb cost more? :p

Haha, the first ever Epiphone Les Paul copy (excluding the super rare Matsumoku Japan ones). It's a 1988 Les Paul II.

http://www.epiphonewiki.org/index/Les_Paul_1,_2_&_3.php

I gotta say, now that it's finally operational and set up with nice low action, it's a cool guitar. I could tell even in its original sorry state that it had potential. Its resonance shone through the muddy stock humbuckers and the fretboard is a really nice dark piece of Rosewood. No fake stain or anything.

pics 074ms.jpg

It's like a Strat had sex with a Les Paul. Still mulling over what pickups to put in it for good. And it's got the open book headstock and the headstock inlays are real MOP. Fretboard inlays are toilet seat though, haha.

guitar shiz 011 med.jpg
 

everdying

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ohh...no wonder that fretboard inlay looked familiar...
but with a basswood body...selecting a pickup should be quite easy as the wood is quite transparent...
or just put some bareknuckles in it :p


btw, this is my SG-90 with factory schaller...gibson basically routed it like a fender...so no big pulls etc...
i still would rather fill it up and put a tune-o-matic on it instead of routing thru the whole body just to put a floyd...unless of cos u really really want a floyd...

7t26Nl.jpg



7t2Sd2.jpg



and ya that's a tremsetter i had installed...
7t21HU.jpg
 
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Tunester

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I have the same issue. I have a S-600 I picked up as a project guitar. The KB is missing 1/2 parts. It seems it was a crap design. Instead of replacing the KB I will either find a trem that fits the route out or fill it in and make it a "Custom" hardtail. I've heard a Kahler would be the closet fit. Guitar need a lot of work so I don't care if it is original - just want to get it playable again.
Screen Shot 2022-01-27 at 11.13.33 AM.png
Screen Shot 2022-01-27 at 11.13.03 AM.png
 

PermissionToLand

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ohh...no wonder that fretboard inlay looked familiar...
but with a basswood body...selecting a pickup should be quite easy as the wood is quite transparent...
or just put some bareknuckles in it :p


btw, this is my SG-90 with factory schaller...gibson basically routed it like a fender...so no big pulls etc...
i still would rather fill it up and put a tune-o-matic on it instead of routing thru the whole body just to put a floyd...unless of cos u really really want a floyd...

7t26Nl.jpg



7t2Sd2.jpg



and ya that's a tremsetter i had installed...
7t21HU.jpg

Oh man, I'm sorry I missed this! The SG-90 was a really cool model and ahead of it's time. That old Epiphone got me into all those funky late '80s Gibson experiments. That looks especially slick in Ebony!

Gibson's catalogs and price lists referred to that trem as a Licensed Floyd Rose, so I'm guessing Schaller was who built it under license, then.

https://solidguitar.fandom.com/wiki/SG_90

That's right, I forgot Floyds usually rout through the body. This Steinberger is just a shallow top rout.
 

PermissionToLand

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I have the same issue. I have a S-600 I picked up as a project guitar. The KB is missing 1/2 parts. It seems it was a crap design. Instead of replacing the KB I will either find a trem that fits the route out or fill it in and make it a "Custom" hardtail. I've heard a Kahler would be the closet fit. Guitar need a lot of work so I don't care if it is original - just want to get it playable again.
View attachment 47166
View attachment 47167

Yeah, a Kahler might be a good bet. Those are top-mounted, and pretty big so it should take up enough space to cover the rout.

If you wanted to go the TOM/stopbar route, it's possible if you don't mind the rout underneath it all. Just for reference, I laid a TOM setup over my KB for you:

20220127_175337.jpg

So the bridge posts should juust fit inside the rout, but the stopbar would need to be anchored outside it.
 

PermissionToLand

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I found a picture of a rout for a Kahler:

7200-route.jpg


So it looks like it would only need a little extra routing.
 

everdying

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Oh man, I'm sorry I missed this! The SG-90 was a really cool model and ahead of it's time. That old Epiphone got me into all those funky late '80s Gibson experiments. That looks especially slick in Ebony!

Gibson's catalogs and price lists referred to that trem as a Licensed Floyd Rose, so I'm guessing Schaller was who built it under license, then.

https://solidguitar.fandom.com/wiki/SG_90

That's right, I forgot Floyds usually rout through the body. This Steinberger is just a shallow top rout.

ya, Schaller made in Germany...more commonly known as a Floyd Rose 2.

and well i got it refinished, factory color is Alpine White...
but i got this used sometime mid-00s and it smelt of beer and ciggies... turned a deep inconsistent yellow with exposed wood here and there especially over the picking area... basically whoever the previous owner was he played the heck out of it.
pickguard was missing and didn't even have the original pickups, so as i was in an EMG phase then... in they went... basically a Steve Lukather combo without the middle.
currently I'm contemplating putting in a texas special / dimarzio paf pro combo...back to Richie Sambora :p
 

Tunester

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Yeah, a Kahler might be a good bet. Those are top-mounted, and pretty big so it should take up enough space to cover the rout.

If you wanted to go the TOM/stopbar route, it's possible if you don't mind the rout underneath it all. Just for reference, I laid a TOM setup over my KB for you:

View attachment 47168

So the bridge posts should juust fit inside the rout, but the stopbar would need to be anchored outside it.

Thanks for the pic. It gives me a good perspective. I'm actually not a fan of trems so I was leaning towards hardtail. The pic gives me some ideas - maybe epoxy to add some color or some hardwood to give contrast under to bridge. If I wanted to spend a lot I saw a custom build with LEDs where the route is. That would be way above my current skill level. If I decide I'll fix it and sell it the Kahler would be easiest. If I keep it I'll figure out a way to fill the hole without having to repaint as I like that 80's look.
 

Von Trapp

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Even though a guitar like that just screams trem I think the choices here are really hard. If you get a Kahler and sell it, you'll never get your money back and there's mot really a way to make a clean fix without a major refin. If you want to keep it, then a Kahler would perhaps be the way to go, I've mounted a couple on my guitars but I find them a bit too finicky and thus I mostly just have them locked so not really a solid investment there. Given that, and if this was my project, I'd feel the Kahler too expensive and not really worth the work.

On the other hand, I'd really feel it needs a trem, just for the look of it. So, yeah, tough!
 

PermissionToLand

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Von Trapp

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Nope, terrible idea; these tremolos are fundamentally flawed. Read my post on the first page for details.

Ok, I read it again and now read it as you saying it's a b!tch to block even though I don't really understand the intricacies around it. If that's the case then yes, it's a terrible idea.
 

PermissionToLand

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Ok, I read it again and now read it as you saying it's a b!tch to block even though I don't really understand the intricacies around it. If that's the case then yes, it's a terrible idea.

Ah, I can see how it would be confusing if you're not familiar with the trem. The posts it sits on bend forward from string tension no matter what you do, basically.
 

Von Trapp

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Aha, I see. I figured a trem could not be that hard to block but it seems these gentlemen have taken it to a different level then.
 

PermissionToLand

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Aha, I see. I figured a trem could not be that hard to block but it seems these gentlemen have taken it to a different level then.

It actually has a lever that allows you to lock it in place. The problem with the trem is that when the posts bend, the whole unit shifts forward and tilts up, throwing off intonation and action.
 

Tunester

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Khaler's are pricey even in the used market. I'm leaning towards plugging the route and doing some kind of custom paint job. Neck and body in good shape so maybe I part the guitar out and buy something else. Good thing I'm not in a rush to get it done.
 


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