replacement tuners for SG Classic

[vivaoaxaca]

I love my SG Classic, but I hate the tuners. It stays in tune fine unless I beat it really hard, but I have fallen in love with the 18:1 Grovers on my custom shop Les Paul. There is simply no comparison. The question is, is there a drop in replacement that would get me closer to what I like that I could install myself? Also, does anyone know what the peg-hole size is on a Classic?

Recommendations? Warnings? Horror Stories? Success Stories?

I appreciate any advice.

 

[rootbeersoup]

:o I [glow=red,3,500]LOVE[/glow] the Kluson tuners!! :o

 

[vivaoaxaca]

C'mon, somebody must know. I really want to do this myself if I possibly can.

 

[CharlieB]

If you like the 18:1 grovers, put them on the Classic. Know that you'll have to ream the holes with a 10mm reamer - DO NOT DRILL or you'll end up with an off centered mess that might split the headstock. Know you'll have holes that show. A good repairman can totally hide the holes, ream the head and set the tuners straight...its not a hard job, but it might be more than you want to do at home, unless you're already handy with THE RIGHT TOOLS and are willing to see the project thru to completion. The laquer fix on the back of the headstock will need two to three weeks to dry.

 

[Zeppelin Rules]

Welcome to ETSG !!!

 

[vivaoaxaca]

Thanks for the info and for the welcome!

This forum is an excellent resource. I should have found it years ago.

 

[cog]

[quote author=CharlieB link=topic=10647.msg139867#msg139867 date=1160876235]
If you like the 18:1 grovers, put them on the Classic. Know that you'll have to ream the holes with a 10mm reamer - DO NOT DRILL or you'll end up with an off centered mess that might split the headstock. Know you'll have holes that show. A good repairman can totally hide the holes, ream the head and set the tuners straight...its not a hard job, but it might be more than you want to do at home, unless you're already handy with THE RIGHT TOOLS and are willing to see the project thru to completion. The laquer fix on the back of the headstock will need two to three weeks to dry.
[/quote]

I put 18:1 locking Grovers on my SG standard (built 1993) but didn't have to ream the holes.. I did have to make a new pilot hole for each grover tuner screw, though. All in all it was pretty painless and easy, though.

I'd say if the price difference is not huge where you buy 'em, go for the locking grovers. Basically no string wrap around the posts, and a string change takes about a minute or less.. Plus there's visually really no difference from regular grovers.. I'm a huge fan of mine..!

 

[CharlieB]

Standards have 10mm holes, while Classics have smaller holes to accomodate the press fit bushings. So... those Classics need to have their tuner holes reamed to get the larger 18:1 keys in them.

 

[TNT]

I rolled up some 320 grit sandpaper tightly on my acoustic guitar and just ran it through awhile on each hole until the Gibby bushing fit tightly. It's labor intensive but cheap! You'll probably need about three sheets of sandpaper just to be on the safe side and it won't hurt the finish.

Be careful when you take the old tuners off though because sometimes manufacturers install the tuners before the finish is dry so the finish might lift when you take the tuner off. If it does and leaves a bubble flow some clear lacquer under the bubble with a small brush and it will be invisible.

 

[TNT]

Yeah...maybe you have a Grover in there.

 

[vivaoaxaca]

Update:

I decided to go with the Grover Deluxe (135N) tuners since they have the same profile on the headstock as the originals. I just got them today and I couldn't be happier. They are a drop-in replacement for the originals and the difference is amazing. They are so much smoother and more precise than the originals, not to mention better looking.

What do you think?

 

[TNT]

Looks familiar! :) That's a good deal that they dropped in so you can sell it with the original tuners. Are they smoother anyway or is it that you get more leverage with the bigger buttons?

 

[vivaoaxaca]

They are much smoother turning. I don't think it has to do with the leverage. I think it's just a much better machine. I don't know where Gibson gets the ones they install (they say Gibson Deluxe on the backs of them) but I know they don't make them and I imagine they chose them based on price rather than quality.

 

[cog]

[quote author=vivaoaxaca link=topic=10647.msg142590#msg142590 date=1162685752]
They are much smoother turning. I don't think it has to do with the leverage. I think it's just a much better machine. I don't know where Gibson gets the ones they install (they say Gibson Deluxe on the backs of them) but I know they don't make them and I imagine they chose them based on price rather than quality.
[/quote]

I think the Gibson tuners come from all over.. I remember replacing a couple here and there... older gibsons said "made in germany' on the back, and recent ones said 'made in japan', with one or two 'made in china' ones thrown in for good measure. Their primary concern must just be that they all look the same, cuz some are good and some are sloppy. Never going back from Grover 18:1's, though. I'd swap em in a second on a brand new SG -- or anything else for that matter.

 

[Zeppelin Rules]

[quote author=vivaoaxaca link=topic=10647.msg142590#msg142590 date=1162685752]
They are much smoother turning. I don't think it has to do with the leverage. I think it's just a much better machine. I don't know where Gibson gets the ones they install (they say Gibson Deluxe on the backs of them) but I know they don't make them and I imagine they chose them based on price rather than quality.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure they're Gibson branded Klusons.

 

[CharlieB]

ok here goes again....

Gibson uses:

On SG's (except some Classics) - threaded bushing, two screw, green-key (tulip or keystone) tuners made by Ping in China. These are marked PW under the tuner. The bushings are 10mm threads. Older Grovers and Schallers with threaded bushings are 3/8 threads, about .025 inches smaller. That means putting new tuners on old guitars requires a sanding/reaming to make em fit.

On Lesters, they use Gotoh press bushing tuners, with keystone keys. Unmarked under the tuner. Hole spacing is different for Ping and Gotoh. The press fit bushings are not the same size as old USA made Grover or Kluson tuner bushings.

On some SG's they use 3-on-a-plate white button tuners made by Ping

On some SG's they use white button Ping tuners with screw bushings. Same as the keystone, just different button. Those buttons MIGHT be able to be replaced, as keystone keys are available as repalcements. Glue em on.

Some SG's and Lesters use the Gibson branded Grovers, same as rotomatics except with metal tulip key. These are one screw fastened tuners and the screw hole is in a slightly different spot than the Ping tuners, so a perfect refit is not gonna happen, but a passable refit can work.

Some older Gibsons use USA Grovers, and Klusons. Grovers look the same now as then, but the USA ones have a slotted screw while far east ones have philips screw on the key. Same thing for Schaller. German Schaller has slot while far east (but German marked... go figure) ones have the philips screw. I understand that all current M8's are made in Korea.

And thats that!

 

[cog]

would the ones I have marked simply "japan" on the underside (they look like all the other kluson-type tuners otherwise, and say Gibson Deluxe) have possibly been Gotoh? They came off my '93 SG Std and were factory original.

The "made in germany" Gibson Deluxe ones I had were gold plated, and I'm guessing Schaller?

The chinese pings are self explanatory.

I just mention since some said these different things on the underside than what you mentioned. :)

 

[CharlieB]

Could be Gotoh, as they were very popular then. Press fit or screw fit bushings?

 

[cog]

They were the screw type. At the time I replaced em, I took a double take.. I was like.. "huh? made in japan?" which was before I realized Gibson outsourced some stuff. :)

 

[CharlieB]

Would have to see em, but could have been Grover or Schaller - both are eastern made now (no matter WHAT Schaller says on it....).

I think they put the knobs on and screw in the bushings in Germany, and can use the "made in germany" label because of that.....