SG cases and body/neck support, neck break reasons, etc?

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by Les’s Nemesis, Jul 18, 2021.

  1. Les’s Nemesis

    Les’s Nemesis New Member

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    Looking for some info on Gibson's SG cases with regards to the the issue with a '61 reissue style neck, weakest of necks.

    Specifically, it looks to me like the classic Gibson SG hardshell case might be designed to support the body of the SG at an angle. In other words, there's a tapered platform/padding in the body area that's thicker where the upper bout is and thinner at the lower bout. So the guitar rests on the complete body, never the neck, and not just the edge of the lower bout.

    This make sense: You would not want the guitar sitting on the neck rest as it would put pressure on the (weak '61) body/neck joint in a flat fall. But, you do need some sort of side-to-side emergency neck control so that the headstock doesn't strike the case side in a hard side fall. You don't want the guitar on the neck since the neck would get upward pressure in a flat fall with the guitar resting on the mid neck-rest and just the lower bout. All that pressure would head to the neck-body joint. Snap.

    Can anyone confirm this case design is true on a vintage or recent Gibson case?

    (Not looking to discuss the welll-beaten subject of the likelihood of neck breaks, headstock breaks, etc. Just the case design).
     
  2. MR D

    MR D Member

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    The 2020 Gibson USA 'SG' Standard MODERN Series Hard Shell Case I recently purchased, direct from GIBSON USA, has an evenly tapered platform under the Guitars body. The high point being under the guitar towards the neck pickup sloping downward towards the rear strap peg. There is no discernable height difference, side to side, upper to lower bout and the guitars body is supported equally and lies comletely flat on top of the HSCase's sloping inner platform. The neck of the guitar lies flat in the Neck Cradle at the 12TH Fret (in the lower neck cradle) and @ the highest Neck Cradle, the guitar is actually not touching the cradle by about 1/16", maybe less (a C.H.).....the space between the neck and the highest cradle is less than the thickness of the tip of my finger. This is, obviously, when the door is wide open.

    The HSCase is the usual GIBSON 4 latch style, in Black w/White Lettering.I did not look @ the HSCase's inner tag to see where it was produced/manufactured.....Holding the HSCase w/Guitar inside of it while I am standing up or walking I can tell that the guitar is definitely NOT moving around at all. It is a certainty that my 'SG' Standard is very securely held in place inside of its GIBSON HSCase w/door latches closed. So AFAICT, This particular GIBSON HSCase does exactly what it is supposed to do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  3. Les’s Nemesis

    Les’s Nemesis New Member

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    MR D (Is that a reference to the Stones "Dancing with Mr D"?): thanks for the detailed answer. Sounds like it's what I assumed for the body but with the neck contacting on the lower rest.

    I'm not sure the 12th fret leverage is optimal for the early necks, but I'd hardly expect them to optimize cases specific to that issue since they mostly fixed it in later years. I can't quite decide if it'd be better to hold the neck like that or leave it floating. I suppose it would depend on whether you have a flat impact (additional bump leverage on neck-to-body joint because neck is supported) or a side impact (exerts leverage on headstock-to-neck area known to be the weakest link).
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  4. Carrion

    Carrion Member

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    "The weakest of Necks" .. haha a title is a title !!
     
  5. Carrion

    Carrion Member

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    this is correct . I have a Black Standard 61 w/ brown case . You can see the padding "rise" just behind the back :)

    case.jpg
     
  6. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Because of the white binding, that looks like either a 2017 or 2018 model.
    SG Standard 2017 T
    2018 SG Standard

    SG Standard '61 model name did not begin until 2019.
    Those have cream/pinkish color binding.
    Finish color only available in cherry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  7. MR D

    MR D Member

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    ...SLAMMIN'........!
    IDK if the HSCase for the '61 SG Standard is slightly longer than the one for the Modern series SG. But due to the neck not being as far into the body of the guitar, it probably should be ? IDK, but I was wondering about that as those two guitars are slightly different. IDK if the Original series '61 & the Modern series SG Standards are the same over-all length. That is a good question & IDK the answer.....Difference would be about 1-1/2" +/- 1/4"?
    OH LOOK,BLAST OFF TIME !
     
  8. Les’s Nemesis

    Les’s Nemesis New Member

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    I believe the length is the same, it's just that the body and neck heel shape is different.

    If you look at the early vs. later necks, the erly body comes up about half way into the horns; the later body comes up higher, to almost the top of the horns. They also made the heel itself bigger, so the tenon is overall much longer, has more wood around it, and is anchored into more body. So the earlier design (re-issued later), gives you the best access but the weakest design.

    See the photos here: https://solidguitar.fandom.com/wiki/Dating#Heel_Joints . There's a major change around 68/69. But then they changed things again along the way. But I don't think the length changes... just the layout.
     
  9. Carrion

    Carrion Member

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    Correct :) its a 2018 Standard , but factory tear drop guard/ BB 61's, only diff from 2019 is the Locking Grovers in 2018 , and the Black paint :)
     
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  10. Carrion

    Carrion Member

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    i kinda dig the white binding :) it matches the pickguard as well as the nut :)
     
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  11. Carrion

    Carrion Member

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    here is my 2018 Brown case showing the padding :)

    case2.jpg
     
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  12. MR D

    MR D Member

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    I stay away from the SG's with 22nd Fret neck joint, for the exact reason you stated above. Gibson ,some say, is notoriously cheap with the glue too, and the early SG's suffered, like many alcoholics, from a bad case of the shakes.
     
  13. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Your ebony SG Standard looks really clean with the white binding.

    I prefer the white binding too...

    2006 SG Classic

    [​IMG]

    And it's OK if it ages to an off-white...

    2004 SG Classic

    [​IMG]

    Not a fan of the cream / pink binding they have been using...

    2019 LP Special

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  14. Carrion

    Carrion Member

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    the top 2 necks just look so much better to me . and over time as aged .. Looks striking on the Cherry !!
     
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  15. jk67SG

    jk67SG Member

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    I ran into a similar or maybe the same issue when I had to replace the original case that came with my 1967 SG Standard (actual, not re-issue). I went to a number of stores and tried various cases from TKL and other manufacturers, and from Gibson, and found the same thing with all of them- the modern SG's fit correctly in these cases that have double neck rests, that is, when the body is resting in contact with the bottom of the case, the neck of the guitar is in contact with both of the neck rests. However, when I put my '67 SG in the same case, when the body is in contact with the case bottom, the neck comes into contact with the neck rest closest to the body, but sits about 1/2"- 3/4" above the neck rest closest to the headstock, and when the case is closed, the top of the case presses down on the headstock and tries to lift the body. The neck rest nearest the body acts as a fulcrum to the guitar's lever. This, to me, seemed like a recipe for disaster if the case ever took a hit while lying flat or fell over from sitting on it's side to lying flat, not to mention just the constant pressure on the neck to body joint from just being in a closed case.
    There's a whole other thread I wrote on everythingsg.com about. I contacted the TKL factory about this and they seemed concerned, told me they had an old SG hanging on the wall and would try it. The contacted me afterwards and confirmed they were seeing exactly what I had described to them, and that they would contact Gibson and get back to me. They never did get back to me and after several attempts to make contact with them, they never responded again. This makes me wonder if it was a product liability issue, in the sense that if Gibson acknowledged that there was a problem, that they might be liable for damages due to selling a case that could potentially harm certain of their SG models without warning customers of any potential danger to their guitar. It went from being very grateful to me for alerting them to this issue and offering to modify any case I brought to them so it fit correctly, to no response at all to my phone calls or email inquiries.
    From what I saw, this has nothing to do with the difference in neck heels or body-to-neck joint shape, it appears to be a difference in neck angle but I had no way of accurately confirming that, but I'm sure that someone else here will be able to confirms or deny that whether that is true; if your reissue is historically accurate to the guitars made in the '60s, maybe this is the problem.
    The solution for me was to 1980's to 1990's brown SG case- the kind that has a pink interior and the 'guitar lingerie' fabic that covers the guitar before the case is closed. It was a perfect fit in every way. The one issue with that case is that the brass loops that the leather handle goes through can, over time, start to cut through the leather, so keep an eye out for that. It appears to have been made by TKL from the way it was designed, I've seen black cases with a light grey interior that came out in the early 2000's I think, that appear to be the same design, but I've never had one to try with my '67 SG Standard.
     
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  16. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    Most of the modern SG that I have seen have the bridge sitting really high which is an indicator of too much neck angle when it was set.

    Vintage SG didn’t seem to have that problem, maybe because the early ones had Vibrolas.
     

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