SGs from the 1970s Norlin Era. Pros and Cons.

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by SG Champagne, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. DavidJ

    DavidJ Active Member

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    I'll try and get a good look at my pick ups this weekend and report back or alternatively:


    A friend of mine is a Radiographer. I wonder just how much trouble she would get into for sneaking a '73 SG11 into work. Just wondering...........:naughty:
     
  2. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    :applause:Gotta give it to ya bender, you went for it! Any funky pics and did you ruin it? Hats off to ya brother!:thumb:
     
  3. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    Dave, I half jokingly suggested gamma rays before but it definitely would work. Ever see that 'Obscura' episode where the x rayed that cauldron that was all chained up with a voodoo spell on it? ooo Hey it worked & that crap was a whole lot of metal. Just sayin, give her a shot bro. If you are serious enough about its importance you never know what kind of answer ya gonna get. hmmm X-Ray. ya X-Ray!
     
  4. shreddy bender

    shreddy bender Well-Known Member

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    sorry i don't have any pics. i'm a broke boy and have no camera.
    nothing was ruined on dear old "sunny". just a little stickiness for a few seconds on the bottom edge of the plastic cover.
    i do like the x-ray ide as it would probably work AND make a really cool photo!
     
  5. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    Glad you didnt ruin Sonny. Ask Santa for a camera. You've earned one being a good boy this year! Merry Christmas Shred Ben.
     
  6. DavidJ

    DavidJ Active Member

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    Experiment.........
    [​IMG]
    I was wrong - the ears are plastic, part of the cover.
    [​IMG]
    The whole thing is sealed tight - I'm guessing epoxy. It's hard rather than sticky.
    [​IMG]
    Pickup removed.
    [​IMG]
    Piece of paper:
    [​IMG]
    Iron filings:
    [​IMG]
    Inconclusive!!!!
    [​IMG]
     
  7. DavidJ

    DavidJ Active Member

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    Next to a pole-piece mini for comparison:
    [​IMG]
    The iron filings test using this mini:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Which doesn't help much either!
    The pole piece mini is slightly smaller, there's a gap when you put the ring around it:
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. DavidJ

    DavidJ Active Member

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    Finally a few detail shots - parallel fingerboard, volute, nice grain on rosewood fingerboard etc:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, thanks for your time & experimentations. I love the fact that you were so interested that you did all this. And I see you found a camera eh?

    When I was experimenting with the minis I have at home here, I took the pole pieces out of one and looked for magnetic pull. The removed pole piece side (which previously was so strong it dominated & pulled the screw driver to it) became almost undetectable magnetically. However, I would guess that Gibson would insert an iron bar like the other side bobbin as a replacement for the pole pieces. Bottom line, These black epoxied pups are simply different than previous minis.

    The results you got with the filings could be indicative of a single coil or, a mini humbucker with one magnet down the center. The raised outline on the back of your pup certainly looks like a covered humbucker but who the hell knows for sure.?. I think you need to butter that friend of yours up for a little experiment or sneak one in your breast pocket for the next chest X-Ray. lol. ooops. Can I keep that picture Ma'am?

    I'm ready to buy one cheap myself and F' it all up. My question is how to be certain it is a genuine Gibson pup? We got no patent numbers or Gibson name anywhere on it right? At least we have your very detailed picks for reference. Thanks brother. I appreciate your work in the name of science!
     
  10. Mike Leaf

    Mike Leaf Member

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    My first Gibson was a SG standard, bought new in 1979 , when I was 17 years old, it was Ivory white and on sale... I loved that guitar and then later on got a white 63 Custom. I dont have the guitar anymore but I actually saw it in a music store a few years ago!

    I think the subject of 'norlin SG´s' is actually a too wide range of models and different construction/designs to be approached as a group.

    1969 to 1985 is a long time , and the SG standard was changed already 3 times between 1971 and 1973 !

    Whats good and bad comes down to what You like and dont like in a guitar.

    Having owned lots of them kind of clears that upp a little.

    Myself, i dont like heavy guitars , specially SG´s.

    For me the balance (not neck heavy) and the sound in the guitar unplugged is most important, together with weight and a neck shape that my hands like.

    Pickups and hardware can be changed.

    With the experience I had, I cant say I think Gibson made the best SG's in the late 70´s and early 80´s , however i loved mine when owning it , and there are sure some good ones from that era, but as a general I think most people would find a 60´s or early 70´s more attractive. Even the new ones produced today ( custom shop and the SG std + 61 RI) has a good quality.

    To answer the initial question , I think its the heavy weight and perhaps the
    x-large head shape got these late 70´s guitars a bad rep as general.

    Light weight mahogany is considered a better tone wood , even if the heavy pieces seem to hold a fretted note longer (as most people call sustain)
     
  11. DavidJ

    DavidJ Active Member

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    I'm going to have to rely on my powers of persuasion with my radiographer friend..........
     
  12. JohnP

    JohnP Member

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    I think it was concluded on this site that the average SG weight is somewhere between 7.5 - 8.0 lbs
    My '78 SG standard weighs in at 7.14 lbs, wich means it's lighter than most SGs.
    I say this weight talk is yet another Norlin myth emanating from the Les Paul party. (The '70s LPs are on the heavy side from what I have heard - or maybe this is also a myth?)

    I have honest to god no idea of what "neck dive" means. I have never experienced that sensation in any guitar I have ever owned or played.

    I agree the classification is to wide. But at least we have a place to discuss the vintage guitars from the '70s,
     
  13. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    John, the term 'neck dive' is used to describe what happens when you take your hands off a 'neck heavy' guitar & the headstock falls down toward the floor or, the neck 'takes a dive' downward. Some blame this on too heavy a headstock or certain style tuners adding too much weight for the body its mated to. Sometimes its strap button placement on the guitar that doesn't offer a balanced feel. What ever it may actually be that causes the neck to fall toward the ground when letting go of the guitar with our hands, that would be referred to as on a 'neck heavy' guitar. I hope this helped & I didn't make it worse. I'm not a teacher for many a good reason my man. lol.

    below is a pic of SG neck dive before, then after it was corrected.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. JohnP

    JohnP Member

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    I see, thanks for the explanation
    I found this on “TGP” which might provide some further clarification:
    “the 61 RI and Specials and other SG's totally have a different neck/body join. the 61 RI have a neck join at the 21st fret, the other one's have one at the 19th fret. Doesn't feel as completely different to me as one would think, but it's there. I think the neck join when done at 19th provides some more stability, so the neck is a bit less like a built in vibrola, but again, not totally opposite either.”

    [​IMG]

    Here's a fail safe solution for those suffering from the neck dive syndrome:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Relic61

    Relic61 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    He He He. Funny. Its either ruin it with strap screws or use a bigsby to weight the light end down man. oh oh oh. lol.:laugh2::laugh2:
     
  16. shreddy bender

    shreddy bender Well-Known Member

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    dear santa. according to Relic61 i've been a good boy this year. oh i know what my mom said but...

    my guitars dont have neck dive as i use a rough grained leather strap on them. also a rough grained leather strap and a corduroy jacket makes them almost immobile. (i wear the jacket not the guitars!).
    when speaking of heavy norlin era guitars my sgIII weighs in at around 6.5 lbs so it is very light and comfortable. my old 74 which was stolen weighed maybe 7.25 - 7.5 lbs. it was heavier but it sounded incredible. as a contrast my 2002 faded special weighs 6.95 lbs. no matter what they weigh i find the sg to be one heck of a comfortable guitar
    i think that epi in the photo needs more strap mounting options as no 2 guitar players are the same!
     
  17. Angry Tele

    Angry Tele Member

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    no it was not an SG but a les paul that was shaped like an Sg and had 3 pickups (I think). Thats all I got. its not john mclaughlin, hes a 1970s rocker-fusion duder.
     
  18. Angry Tele

    Angry Tele Member

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    it might be allan holdsworth
     
  19. tpa

    tpa Active Member

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    Thats a good guess:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnyKYDy6O8Y[/ame]
     
  20. DavidJ

    DavidJ Active Member

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    Is that a Tokai?
     

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