Some Quick Questions About SG Standard '61 Models

[An Abiding Dude]

I prefer SG Standard body with a full face pickguard, a small pickguard fits perfectly a '61 body.
All tastes are in nature.

May be the best choice is no pickguard

View attachment 45894

Is that a Derek Trucks model? Or did you mod it to look like one? It's beaut, but I admit it looks strange to have the tailpiece without the vibrola because the whole point of the tailpiece is to anchor the vibrola to the body.

 

[SweetJohnnyD]

Hi All,
I have some quick questions that I hope folks here can help with while I search out a new SG.

1) Are the current Gibson SG Standard '61 models basically the same as the previous '61 Reissues? Are they just the current version of the reissue?

2) Are the ones that some stores list as Gibson SG Standard '61 Stopbar the same as the SG Standard '61s, with the 'stopbar' thing just differentiating them from models with vibrola?

3) Are the older reissues and these new '61 models significantly better than the normal Standards, at least enough to justify the price difference?

Thanks in advance.

As far as I can tell, the difference between my 1999 STD and 2014 '61 RI is the neck and p/u. It has the "slightly wider and flatter" feel to it. The p/u sound more articulated. The main difference (if you can find one) is the "pull the volume knob for single coil" feature of the 2014 '61 RI. It puts the SG into a whole different realm.

 

[colchar]

As far as I can tell, the difference between my 1999 STD and 2014 '61 RI is the neck and p/u. It has the "slightly wider and flatter" feel to it. The p/u sound more articulated. The main difference (if you can find one) is the "pull the volume knob for single coil" feature of the 2014 '61 RI. It puts the SG into a whole different realm.

Coil splitting has never appealed to me.

That being said, I picked up a 2018 Standard (see post #58).

 

[SGBreadfan]

As far as I can tell, the difference between my 1999 STD and 2014 '61 RI is the neck and p/u. It has the "slightly wider and flatter" feel to it. The p/u sound more articulated. The main difference (if you can find one) is the "pull the volume knob for single coil" feature of the 2014 '61 RI. It puts the SG into a whole different realm.

I have the coil splits on my 2010 Standard, very useful!

 

[Michael Hannigan]

I am tempted to say that the SG Standard '61 is the equivalent of the SG '61 RI.
The SG Standard with full face pickguard is in production
https://www.thomann.de/fr/gibson_sg_standard_hc.htm?sid=9a7d115736422a845bdb231cc6422802

View attachment 45881

These are not "reissues". As far as I'm aware, they are not done to 1961 specs like a re-issue. Keep in mind that Gibson USA and Gibson Custom Shop are in different leagues, and "re-issues" are generally done by the custom shop. I think this is more akin to the 50's Les Paul and 60's Les Paul, which are Gibson USA models with specs like the pickups and the neck profiles being either more 60ish or 50ish. But they are definitely not historically correct.

Nor, imo, would you want it to be. As a player, I'd never pay $5k for a custom re-issue because with true historic specs, they simply don't play as well as modern guitars. The things people hear in old guitars is usually specific to that guitar. Construction, pickup winding, and other production elements were much less consistent than they are today, so before, you would get the occasional gem sort of by accident. But they don't even know for certain what some of the specs were ok historics (for a few reasons including the loss of records and manual pickup winding where the person would use and approximate number if winds on each bobbin)

The Custom shop puts out some great stuff for players (look at the custom shop's modern collection).

So, it's not a reissue, but don't let that hold you back. Don't make TOO much out of Gibson's prices because they make no sense once you get past about $2k. Generally, the more you spend on a Gibson, the better the woods will be to a point. Just take the pickups out of a Les Paul Standard and a Les Paul Tribute sometime and look in the cavities. You'll know immediately what I mean. But from the Classics on up, I don't see such a difference. Custom Shop absolutely has unparalleled fit, finish, and craftsmanship. But you pay aot for that little bit extra.

 

[papagayo]

These are not "reissues". As far as I'm aware, they are not done to 1961 specs like a re-issue. Keep in mind that Gibson USA and Gibson Custom S
hop are in different leagues, and "re-issues" are generally done by the custom shop. I think this is more akin to the 50's Les Paul and 60's Les Paul, which are Gibson USA models with specs like the pickups and the neck profiles being either more 60ish or 50ish. But they are definitely not historically correct.

Nor, imo, would you want it to be. As a player, I'd never pay $5k for a custom re-issue because with true historic specs, they simply don't play as well as modern guitars. The things people hear in old guitars is usually specific to that guitar. Construction, pickup winding, and other production elements were much less consistent than they are today, so before, you would get the occasional gem sort of by accident. But they don't even know for certain what some of the specs were ok historics (for a few reasons including the loss of records and manual pickup winding where the person would use and approximate number if winds on each bobbin)

The Custom shop puts out some great stuff for players (look at the custom shop's modern collection).

So, it's not a reissue, but don't let that hold you back. Don't make TOO much out of Gibson's prices because they make no sense once you get past about $2k. Generally, the more you spend on a Gibson, the better the woods will be to a point. Just take the pickups out of a Les Paul Standard and a Les Paul Tribute sometime and look in the cavities. You'll know immediately what I mean. But from the Classics on up, I don't see such a difference. Custom Shop absolutely has unparalleled fit, finish, and craftsmanship. But you pay aot for that little bit extra.

Never, that's wrong.
The Gibson SG '61 Ri is not a Custom Shop model.

 

[colchar]

These are not "reissues". As far as I'm aware, they are not done to 1961 specs like a re-issue. Keep in mind that Gibson USA and Gibson Custom Shop are in different leagues, and "re-issues" are generally done by the custom shop. I think this is more akin to the 50's Les Paul and 60's Les Paul, which are Gibson USA models with specs like the pickups and the neck profiles being either more 60ish or 50ish. But they are definitely not historically correct.

I thought the '61 Reissue model was supposed to be somewhat historically correct?

 

[cerebral gasket]

I thought the '61 Reissue model was supposed to be somewhat historically correct?

Nope.
It’s missing a sideways vibrola, double ring Klusons.

 

[papagayo]

In the Gibson USA range the '61 Ri is the closest model to a vintage one. SG '61 Ri made before 2002 has a Gibson ABR-1 bridge.

If you like the Vibrola the 2013-2014 SG Original is a good one.

 

[Decadent Dan]

 

[papagayo]

View attachment 45945

Nice, this is a '61 pure replica made by the Custom Shop Dept.
Prepare half a $10000 bill.

 

[colchar]

Nope.
It’s missing a sideways vibrola, double ring Klusons.

Did all original '61s have the vibrola?

 

[cerebral gasket]

I’ve never seen a stock 1961 SG Standard without a Sideways Vibrola. By 1963, they had the Maestro Vibrola until 1971.

1973 was the first year SG Standards had a stop bar tailpiece.

 

[papagayo]

I think that you want a '64 Ri...
same for me

 

[MR D]

I’ve never seen a stock 1961 SG Standard without a Sideways Vibrola. By 1963, they had the Maestro Vibrola until 1971.

1973 was the first year SG Standards had a stop bar tailpiece.

YO C.B....IF IF IF anyone knows the answer to this question, I figure its you Bro !
I've tried to get definitive proof of when the Neck Joint on the SG Standard (or any GIBSON SG really !) moved from the 22ND Fret to the 19TH Fret. I've a line on a '65 all stock, no repairs/cracks ! but I actually think itssa '66 because the Neck Joint is at the 19TH Fret...and with the Angel Wing Pick-Guard it would almost certainly have to be a '66...some say the Neck Joint change was in 1967 (October 1966?) when the Bat-Wing P.G. appeared and maybe that's true, and a few Angel-Wings Body's ended up w/that Neck Joint placement too? ..... IDK.....

According to GIBSON's Resident Walking-Talking Encyclopedia (B.B.) the serial #'s on any 1965 'SG' began with 255XXXX and end w/258XXX this Guys Guitar serial# starts w/259.....which further bolsters my position that the guitar is in fact a 1966 SG Standard....

 

[cerebral gasket]

YO C.B....IF IF IF anyone knows the answer to this question, I figure its you Bro !
I've tried to get definitive proof of when the Neck Joint on the SG Standard (or any GIBSON SG really !) moved from the 22ND Fret to the 19TH Fret. I've a line on a '65 all stock, no repairs/cracks ! but I actually think itssa '66 because the Neck Joint is at the 19TH Fret...and with the Angel Wing Pick-Guard it would almost certainly have to be a '66...some say the Neck Joint change was in 1967 (October 1966?) when the Bat-Wing P.G. appeared and maybe that's true, and a few Angel-Wings Body's ended up w/that Neck Joint placement too? ..... IDK.....

According to GIBSON's Resident Walking-Talking Encyclopedia (B.B.) the serial #'s on any 1965 'SG' began with 255XXXX and end w/258XXX this Guys Guitar serial# starts w/259.....which further bolsters my position that the guitar is in fact a 1966 SG Standard....

From what I have seen...

1961-65
Neck joins body at 22nd fret

1966-71
Neck joins body at 19th fret

There's always those transition years where feature changes overlap.

 

[papagayo]

So, Colchar whot SG dis you buy?

Don' t forget the pictures !

 

[MR D]

From what I have seen...

1961-65
Neck joins body at 22nd fret

1966-71
Neck joins body at 19th fret

There's always those transition years where feature changes overlap.

THANKS C.B., IMO I can take that as a reliable confirmation of what I had come up with: Itssa '66 GIBSON SG Standard w/19TH Fret Neck Joint, Angel-Wing Pick-Guard. IDC that the guy thinks itssa '65, price wise that matters little.....it was really all down to process of elimination with given info w/grey area's I mentioned. Too Bad GIBSON has no records.......Now I have to check the pots etc etc...and this guitar is not around the block and the Guy wont be waiting for my return if someone else wants it...$8,500 is not chump change and the Guy doesn't mind if I bring Black Lights/Tools and my 2017 SG Standard as a comparison...so it appears to be a straight up real dealio.....This guitar is as close to the 'Holy Grail' type guitar that a Guy like me can maybe get, possibly once in a life-time. I'm close, can smell it from here. I have searched for one of these for quite sometime: a Labour of Lust to get the oldest SG I could find with 19th Fret Neck Joint and 100% stock/original...Now I know, without a doubt: the 1966 GIBSON SG Standard w/Angel-Wing Pick-Guard. AFAIK, it was only made like that for 1 official production year, '66, then came the Bat-Wing re-modeling.
IDK if its the 1- 9/16" Nut Width, I'm hoping its 1-11/16", fewer like that broke, so maybe no repairs (cracks cant hide from a Black Light) but its OK if its not... and really only one way to know for sure. Gotta get OFF my horse now, AND GET TO STEPPIN'........ be4 someone else gets it.
BIG THANKS C.B., YOU FLIPPIN ROCK DUDE !!!