Thinking of getting a second SG

Discussion in 'Gibson SG' started by sgguitarzz, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Active Member

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    You don't...... but if you want the 1964 SG Standard on reverb dot com in Brooklyn, NYC...you will need about $9300 after tax is added to the sale.Personally I think the hype behind the older so-called 'Vintage' Gibson's is a myth. How much better is a 1964 SG Standard going to sound than my 2017 SG Standard ? and is it worth the extra cost ? I doubt it, seriously doubt it...... and find some STANDARDS and all CUSTOM Shop guitars will be more adequate to sound better than a Vintage specimen...for thousands of $$$ less.
    I have a 2017 Gibson SG Standard that is an absolute CANNON and it cost me $1299 and If it were my only guitar I would be forever satisfied that I had a Great Guitar.I have yet to put it up against a 1964 SG Standard thru the same rigs and to see which sounds better, but I would be willing to do so if someone presented me with the opportunity !
     
  2. Neezduts89

    Neezduts89 Member

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    it seems that the SG is a very demanding guitar as far as the setup goes. They can sound amazing with the right setup (I set both of mine up to factory specs, or close to that), but when something is off, things go south very quickly. I personally like that because it gives me more opportunity to check up on things and see how everything is doing. I enjoy checking neck relief, intonation, pickup height, action, etc etc, and would encourage every SG owner to learn all of these techniques well. There is plenty of information on the internet to be able to learn how to do it all yourself, and it’s fairly basic with the right tools.

    I very much so enjoy my tribute, and find that it is a great guitar for metal. I use it to play lots of heavier songs that I love and it is perfect for that. The tone is great, the fast neck makes playing a breeze, and the guitar holds tune very well. I don’t see the tribute as having flaws as compared to my standard, but I’ll definitely agree that the standard is the nicer guitar out of the two. It can do so much more tone wise, it stays in tune even better than the tribute, and just feels like a much more solid guitar over all. I do love both of them though and use them all the time, I try to take good care of them so they don’t get too beat up. They both sound great through my Marshall tube amp, and also through my little 15 watt “quiet time” amp
     
  3. sgguitarzz

    sgguitarzz Member

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    Well I would put my 1969 SG up against any SG from any year but it would not be an apples to apples comparison since I have modified so many things. I am a believer in some guitars just have something and some don't. Its funny the best guitar I ever picked was this SG when I knew absolutely nothing lol.
     
  4. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Now you've just discredited yourself. Any intro course on physics could tell you that the denser a material, the more energy it reflects, while the less dense, the more it absorbs.

    You may as well have just said "the sky is green, and that's a fact!"


    Yeah, that's where you'll see "Grade A" listed for the 2017 Special:

    http://legacy.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2017/USA/SG-Special.aspx

    Of course, the "shade" spec is 100% marketing, as you can see in the pictures that there is wide variation in coloration from one example to another, contradicting the stated shade spec:

    [​IMG]

    So they're calling both of the above "medium", but compare the one on the left there to what they call "light":

    [​IMG]

    And this is the "dark" Rosewood of the Standard:

    [​IMG]

    Pure marketing, all of it.

    And even if we did take their marketing team's word for it; you're still wrong because the specs changed year over year; the Special went from "light" Rosewood in 2015, to "medium" in 2017 (which is the same as the Standard that year, having been downgraded from "dark").

    That said, some of the cheapest models are claimed to have used grade C Mahogany for certain model years, so I will concede that. The point is, Gibson is a lean manufacturing operation; they don't obsess over density or grain pattern for mass-produced instruments, they grab whatever is on hand to keep the line moving. Heck, you can find a wide variation of grain and density in Custom Shop models. And you know why? Because it's all subjective anyway. Some people prefer denser wood. Drop into a Les Paul forum and they'll tell you if it doesn't weigh over 10 lbs, it's not worth jack. SG guys tend to like lighter wood. People's preferences for grain pattern are all over the place and in some cases contradict their weight preferences.

    The bottom line is; you don't need to put down other peoples' guitars to feel good about yours. If you want tonewood elitism, MyLesPaul is to the right. But I'll let you in on a little secret; there is no such thing as objectively "superior" wood. Just because the Nato wood in an Epiphone happened to grow in an impoverished east Asian country doesn't make it inferior. Trees don't understand economics.
     
  5. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Active Member

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    If you think I read all that, no !!!

    I did not put anyones guitar down....I said you get what you pay for with GIBSON...Specials cost less because of the everything on the guitar is cheaper materials..Now will you go get or go look up a case where an expensive nut was put on a guitar 15 yrs ago and tell me I am FOS, eh ?

    and for laughs, yeah, MY 2017 SG is a cannon....BUT u might not like it if you picked it up, so what ?

    as far as the physics lesson goes, we disagree. and I did not discredit myself or anyone else.....GIBSON uses less dense woods on more expensive guitars and cheaper ligter shaded fret-boards on cheaper guitars, they just do. DARKER FB Woods being more desirable (Will you now say you like the lighter shaded FB's? and know 150 players that do as well, huh?)If you want to dispute it call GIBSON.......if you went to the archived pages , you saw what I saw and know why I wrote what I wrote.....it is all right there....and on the GIBSON's I own.
    If you have a Faded/Special/Junior just look at the shade of the FB.

    and as far as people saying if a Les Paul doesn't weigh 10 lbs.....SO WHAT? its an opine.I have one that 8.7 and its a beter sounding guitar than the CUSTOM LP I have @ 10.5lbs, BUT YOU might not like either, SO WHAT ?

    As far as discediting myself goes, NAH, I DONT THINK SO !I been playing and fixing GIBSON's for a long time...and know what I am doing as well as talking about.
     
  6. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Active Member

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    GIBSON prices their guitars pretty wisely, and surely you know the reasons for the price differences is obviously the materials used in the making of the guitar.. That said, I have yet to meet a properly functioning GIBSON Solid-Body electric that I could not make scream like a banshee. Faded/Junior/Standard or Custom.
     
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  7. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Active Member

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    U kno, have a point about SG's being demanding.I find it usually takes about 12-18 months for the neck to settle, longer on road guitars, after that the relief doesn't shift much....on one of mine, the pickups constantly going lower...pick it up, sounds bad, look again, pickups dropped again. Have you ever tried putting foam under the pickups to level them and prevent them from slipping downward ?
    I was advised, a long time ago, against doing it, but see no harm in it...
     
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  8. cerebral gasket

    cerebral gasket Well-Known Member

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    2003 SG Special Faded
    Ebony Fingerboard

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  9. PauloQS

    PauloQS Member

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    We don’t know for sure if Gibson still uses the same grading system they used up to 2017. In 2018 their spec sheets became much less detailed. However, there is enough evidence to suggest Gibson at least still weighs their body blanks and allocate them to models according to weight.

    If we go to LPs where weight it more of an issue and compare a few models, it seems to suggest Gibson weigh mahogany blanks. For instance, if we compare the Les Paul Classic and Standard ‘60s. Classic has 9-hole weight relief, while Standard ‘60s has no weight relief. However, they roughly have a similar average weight. Furthermore, I did find sub 9lbs Standard ‘60s, while I don’t remember ever finding a sub 9lbs Classic.

    Comparing the Slash Standard with the Standard ‘50s. Again on average, very similar weights. On median and mode if I’m being more technical. However, the ease which you’ll find sub 9lbs Slash Standards are in my experience much greater than on Standard ‘50s. I did find several Standard ‘50s in the 8lbs 10oz range or less. However, you’d need to look much harder than if you were shopping for a Slash Standard. It looks like the Slash Standard and Standard ‘50s & ’60s have the same body bank cutoff weight. However, when they find a particularly light body blank they end up using them on a Slash Standard more often.

    However, that’s an aspect of a guitar that might spark interest from a guitar nut like myself and maybe others here, but it doesn’t objectively establish that Standards are better. In fact if I subscribed to that, I’d not be an SG guy.

    I bought an 2018 SG Standard ‘61 that sounded absolutely amazing, but I hated how it played. The guitar fought back like crazy. There was nothing wrong with the guitar. I think the neck profile just wasn’t my thing or was one of those ghosts in the guitar thing. However, what had me not give up on SGs were a used SG Classic (can’t remember the year, but I want to say 2010 or 2011), a used SG gothic, and a new 2017 SG Faded T that I had played an year before I got my 2018 SG. The 2017 SG Faded T to this day has been one of the most comfortable easy to play guitars I ever picked up. Granted I think the 2018 Faded line were not as good for having sharper fretboard edges and many had frets sprouting issues. Some of those things were not addressed with the current leadership very early batches, but in my experience they’ve gotten much better in subsequent batches. In summary that particular 2018 Standard ‘61 was absolute terrible, the very worse guitar I ever owned (my first electric guitar was a Samick Gregg Bennett Avion 3 and my first guitar was a Fender Acoustic solid top Dreadnought that came in a kit) and that 2017 SG Faded T was absolutely amazing.

    Just to clarify, I think the current Standard ‘61s are phenomenal. I even considered keeping mine and returning my custom shop SG. In fact I got the original collection Standard ‘61 just after the 2019 winter NAMM show when Gibson was being hyped. I went to try one of the new ones and was blown away. Went home to pick up the 2018 SG to put it towards the original collection Standard ‘61.
     
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  10. Neezduts89

    Neezduts89 Member

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    I have felt since day one that the SG is a very demanding guitar for that reason. Like you were saying, they can sound awful if the setup is bad, but can sound like a completely different guitar with some minor tweaks. I like that about these guitars. I enjoy doing setup work on mine and have learned to do it well since I have no trusted luthiers around me. All I have close to me is guitar center, and the store near me is dying. It used to be full of amazing guitars and full of life. Anytime you would stop in, it was packed with musicians trying out new equipment, and it was a great overall hang out spot. The luthier that used to work there is long gone, and there is a new guy. Not saying he isn’t competent, but I have a hard time trusting someone I don’t know with my baby, especially since the overall attitude at this guitar center is very bad. With that being said, I’ve learned to do everything myself. I’ve worked in maintenance for quite awhile, and have always fiddled around with hand tools, so I was confident enough in myself to learn how to setup a guitar properly. I always keep everything on my SG close to factory specs, and I’ve had the best results with that. I have never tried anything like you’ve mentioned with the pickups, but I have adjusted the bridge pickup on my standard a few times. I am perfectly happy with how it sounds and plays now so I will leave everything alone until something feels off, or until I change the strings and re check everything again. I try to get everything setup one good time so I can leave it alone and enjoy it how it is for as long as possible. I usually don’t have to adjust anything until it’s time to restring, and even then I always use the same gauge strings so nothing really goes out of wack too much. I’ve found it’s best to experiment (within reason and very carefully) with how you like your SG to be setup, again keeping it as close to factory specs as possible, and mine have treated me extremely well just based off of that mentality.
     
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  11. Neezduts89

    Neezduts89 Member

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    I used a Gibson Les standard for many years, and used it a ton back in high school. During this time I was going through my “shredder” phase, and I used this guitar primarily in the band I used to play in. We played an old school type of thrash metal mixed with the new school “breakdown” type of metal. That les Paul screamed way harder than any other guitar Ive owned and it sounded so much better. Unfortunately it took a tumble some time ago and the head stock broke, and I decided to retire it. It was a beauty, and I loved it more than anything. I used it for years and never had a single issue with it. Now that I’m a bit older, I’ve learned to slow down a bit. I switched to the SG and couldn’t be happier. I think it screams even harder than my les paul did, and let’s face it, it looks a million times better as well. Gibson sure knows how to make a wonderful solid body guitar, and I couldn’t be happier with either of my SG’s
     
  12. PauloQS

    PauloQS Member

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    Oh man, I see so much wasted potential with how people pull the trigger way too fast to swap parts. The neck pickup on my R9 for instance was very muddy at first. I have since learned to tame it and I absolutely love it now. If I were to listen to the web experts I would have dished another $500 or so to get some expensive boutique pickups, like throwbaks, which are great, I agree, but I like the stock ones on my R9 better. The BB 61 on the Current Standard ‘61s are phenomenal, but I’ve seen a few people too trigger happy and swap them out. People swapping hardware or even installing unnecessary hideous gadgets, like string butler, because of an issue at the nut causing tuning problem. I’m so glad I learned to work on guitars very early on. Working on guitars is not hard, it’s merely a matter of being patient. I find it quite enjoyable too.
     
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  13. Neezduts89

    Neezduts89 Member

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    I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve never modified a guitar that I’ve owned for any reason. When it comes to guitars, I’ve always felt like keeping everything stock and adjusting it to your liking is what’s best. I’ve never felt a need to modify anything as I’ve been pretty lucky with setting up the guitar the way I like it and getting it to sound the way I want it to. With that being said, I’ve developed specific preferences with what I want and don’t want on a guitar, just like all of us do, and I always make sure the guitar has everything I want before pulling the trigger and purchasing it. That way I know that I will be completely happy with it and won’t feel the need to modify anything. I’ve always enjoyed guitars in their stock form and that hasn’t changed for me at all over the years. If something needs adjusted to suit me better, I will keep tweaking it until I am happy with the way it plays or sounds
     
  14. sgguitarzz

    sgguitarzz Member

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    I spent some time at Sam Ash this afternoon and tried a 61 standard reissue with the Maestro Vibrola ($1999) and one with the hard tail ($1799). I wasn't too keen on the one with the Maestro trem but the hard tail was very nice. I am not sure the actual specs but the necks felt very different to me. Both seem to have wider nuts than my 69 which is very narrow but the hard tail neck as a whole felt narrower and much closer to what I am used to. It also sounded better to me and was easier to play. If I was going to pick one it would have been the hard tail easy. Both were some kind of cherry color but lighter than I remember the old ones being.
     
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  15. PauloQS

    PauloQS Member

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    You played the Standard ‘61 hard tail and the Standard ‘61 with Maestro. The fretboard width on those are exactly the same, though. The neck profiles are also the same, however, because they are finished by hand, there can be some variation. What I’m guessing might have happened is that the one with Maestro had a bit more shoulders, giving you the impression of a wider fretboard.

    They also have the same pickups and electronics. Thus the different in sound could’ve been due to setup, inherent differences across guitars (wood or whatever have you) or the tail piece or a combination of all these things.
     
  16. sgguitarzz

    sgguitarzz Member

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    Very few guitars even of the same brand and model will be exactly the same. I think guitars are all kind of unique in their own way which is why you can sit and play 10 of the same brand and model but maybe like one or two. It may be feel and despite the same electronics it may be sound. Trust me when I say the feel of these two necks were not the same at all. The one with the Maestro was definitely chunkier feeling than the hard tail. I am playing guitars for 50+ years and have had my SG all that time. The second one felt more familiar and comfortable to me than the Maestro equipped model.
     
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  17. PauloQS

    PauloQS Member

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    I have enough experience with guitars, particularly with Gibson, to have to agree with you. Gibson may rough cut the necks on CNC, but the final profiling of the neck is done by hand. There is a ton of variation both in depth and overall shape/geometry. Neck depth can vary between 0.79” at the 1st fret to 0.83”/0.84”. That’s on paper not a lot, but the hands feel. On top of that the geometry can vary a lot. Some have more shoulders, more D shaped, others have less, more C shaped. Shoulders can make a huge difference in how the neck feels in your hand.

    There are also other variables, like binding thickness, rolling of the fretboard, smoothness of the nut edges, etc. that can all contribute to even same model guitars feeling different.

    The width of the fretboard, however, there is virtually no variation, there technically is some variation, but we’d be talking about a level of precision that completely negligible for practical purposes, i.e. more decimal points to see any difference. This is a pet peeve of mine because of the myth that SGs have wider fretboards than LPs. That could’ve been the case in some years. However, currently they have the same width.

    I didn’t want to get into the whole rabbit hole of tone woods. Call it what you will, the ghost in the guitar, like Isaac Asimov’s ghost in the machine or something else entirely. Two identical models will more often than not sound and feel different. More so when they have a different bridge.
     
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  18. Wild Bill212

    Wild Bill212 Active Member

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    No one said it did, I certainly did not, and did not imply it either.....its just a cheaper made guitar...I do know that some people don't like the word CHEAP and what goes along with it.
     
  19. PauloQS

    PauloQS Member

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    I think that’s the point of the Faded and now Tribute line. No fluff, just the essential to make a good guitar that is focused almost entirely in sounding good and playing well. I find them awesome and very inspiring. In my experience many of the 2018 ones had bad fret ends, which is interesting, because the 2018 Juniors, which were cheaper, had better fret ends work. However, up to 2017, they were particularly good and the new ones seem to have gone back to the better overall quality. Either that or I’ve simply been unlucky with 2018 guitars.
     
  20. PermissionToLand

    PermissionToLand Well-Known Member

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    Who responds to a comment they didn't read?

    Certain models can be cheaper without using cheaper materials in every aspect. For example, the stopbar tailpiece is exactly the same from a Special Faded up to a Kirk Douglas Custom. There is a base level of continuity in order to maintain brand-wide standards.

    "Expensive nut on a 15 year old guitar"? What? It's one thing to not read a comment, but another entirely to then make things up.

    I see, we "disagree" on physics, just like we can "disagree" on what color the sky is. Except we can't because it's not subjective...

    Desire is subjective. Why does my Custom Shop SG have a lighter fretboard than my cheapo Epiphone?

    fretboard.jpg

    pics 074ms.jpg

    You realize that the type of Rosewood that was so highly regarded that it was almost driven to extinction is not the darkest type of Rosewood?

    [​IMG]

    Does that look super dark to you?

    Man, you might know "so what" if you actually read the comment. Funny how that works...

    Haha, okay, bud. "Nuh-uh" isn't an argument.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
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