Townshend SG Sound

[Daphne Gruntfuttock]

I'm always seeking the Holy Grail, the distinct clean guitar sound on
The Who's Live at Leeds but never quite achieve it.
Whether it's the amps, the stomp boxes, strings, or the SG set up.

So anyone know the wiring details, the cap and pot values
of the bog standard 1966-70 SGs that
Townshend favoured , Or if he modified them ?
Or will I have to shell out $5000 for an original ?

 

[DrBGood]

One word: Hiwatt

 

[Decadent Dan]

Reeves Amplification Signature CP103 / CP504

 

[Norton]

yeah.. you're not gonna get anywhere near Pete Townsend from that era without a Hiwatt or Hiwatt style amp.

I built a hi watt clone from a Trinity amps kit. It's an amp that's VERY different from most guitar amps. ridiculous muscle and clarity.

Not my favorite guitar amp but it's my favorite bass amp for sure.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Norton, what speakers do you like for this as a bass amp setup?

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

One word: Hiwatt

Jean, What speakers do we think Townshend was using for Leeds?

Hiwatt cabs too, What was in them, EV or what?

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

 

[DrBGood]

OK, more words.

He didn't use SG Standards, but SG Specials with P90. You can get pretty close to his tone with any P90 guitars. The amp is more tricky. You need volume, loudness and tube break-up.

Jean, What speakers do we think Townshend was using for Leeds?

Hiwatt cabs too, What was in them, EV or what?

Pete plugged these amps into one or two Hiwatt SE4123 4×12 cabinets each (bottoms are occasionally dummy cabinets), loaded with four 50-watt Fane 12″ speakers, specially voiced for increased bass response, or, beginning in 1976, four 50-watt JBL K120 12″ speakers (for extra punch and a cleaner sound). (In 1982, Pete used MESA/Boogie 4×12 cabinets.)

https://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/guitar/cp103.html

 

[Norton]

I've got a 2x12 cab paired up with my hi watt clone. 1 speaker is a cannibas rex from eminence (criminally under rated ) and an early 80's fane.

The consensus group think opinion was that the Fane was CRUCIAL to the hi watt sound. It's a smoother sounding celestion with more low end to my ears. Which is a good thing. but plenty of speakers can do that. Luckily I didn't need to over pay for this fane.

Both speakers kick out the bass jams without problem and have zero problem keeping up with a rock drummer. But the over spec'd stupid heavy output transformer on the amp probably has more to do with that than anything else.

 

[Go Nigel Go]

If I am not mistaken, isn't the Cannibis Rex voiced to favor the lows a bit as well? I have been curious about that one, and have considered it to make my Duo Medalist a bit more "single coil friendly". It is no surprise those mid to late '60s Gibson amps play well with the tone controls on Gibson humbucker guitars, but throw a Strat or Tele at it and you need to take all the highs off at the amp to get a nice fat Hendixy tone.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

OK, more words.

He didn't use SG Standards, but SG Specials with P90. You can get pretty close to his tone with any P90 guitars. The amp is more tricky. You need volume, loudness and tube break-up.

Pete plugged these amps into one or two Hiwatt SE4123 4×12 cabinets each (bottoms are occasionally dummy cabinets), loaded with four 50-watt Fane 12″ speakers, specially voiced for increased bass response, or, beginning in 1976, four 50-watt JBL K120 12″ speakers (for extra punch and a cleaner sound). (In 1982, Pete used MESA/Boogie 4×12 cabinets.)

https://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/guitar/cp103.html

I saw The Who live for the first time in 1982.

I almost was gonna say possibly Fane Speakers.,

 

[SG John]

Hiwatts and Fanes are where the sound is at.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

OK, more words.

He didn't use SG Standards, but SG Specials with P90. You can get pretty close to his tone with any P90 guitars. The amp is more tricky. You need volume, loudness and tube break-up.

Pete plugged these amps into one or two Hiwatt SE4123 4×12 cabinets each (bottoms are occasionally dummy cabinets), loaded with four 50-watt Fane 12″ speakers, specially voiced for increased bass response, or, beginning in 1976, four 50-watt JBL K120 12″ speakers (for extra punch and a cleaner sound). (In 1982, Pete used MESA/Boogie 4×12 cabinets.)

https://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/guitar/cp103.html

Well @DrBGood , thanks for the breakdown.
I totally forget about JBL

I used to have a sweet 1972/73 Basketweave Marshall 4x12 with Greenback 25 watt.
Had to sell it to pay bills. Bought a 1960A with G12 T75's, Then I got an Orange re-tolexed Behringer cab that had Eminence Governor 12 inch speakers in it.

Most recently, I bought a vintage Traynor 4x12 empty cab and got a pair of EVM 12L's for it or for a pair of 1x12 cabs if I can build some cool cabs. I have a good batch of furniture grade lumber I may make some custom cabs for these.

My EV's are like the 1989 and or 1983

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

The Man I bow down to, SG John.

Listen to these Fanes.

 

[hagstrom]

Two Hiwatt heads with vintage Fanes?!! I bow down to SG John as well.

Anyone know how the new Fanes are? Isn't Steve Fryette who bought Sound City involved with Fane as well?

I have a Fryette Power station and it's by far the best way to bring down the volume of a non master volume amp like my 64 AC30.
I would think that it would help a Hiwatt owner help keep their hearing intact. No reason to emulate Pete's hearing loss.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Two Hiwatt heads with vintage Fanes?!! I bow down to SG John as well.

Anyone know how the new Fanes are? Isn't Steve Fryette who bought Sound City involved with Fane as well?

I have a Fryette Power station and it's by far the best way to bring down the volume of a non master volume amp like my 64 AC30.
I would think that it would help a Hiwatt owner help keep their hearing intact. No reason to emulate Pete's hearing loss.

Huh?

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Two Hiwatt heads with vintage Fanes?!! I bow down to SG John as well.

Anyone know how the new Fanes are? Isn't Steve Fryette who bought Sound City involved with Fane as well?

I have a Fryette Power station and it's by far the best way to bring down the volume of a non master volume amp like my 64 AC30.
I would think that it would help a Hiwatt owner help keep their hearing intact. No reason to emulate Pete's hearing loss.

 

[Decadent Dan]

I had an old Hiwatt 4x12 with Fane speakers but their magnets were square. The wood was thicker and it was noticeably heavier than a Marshall 4x12.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

I had an old Hiwatt 4x12 with Fane speakers but their magnets were square. The wood was thicker and it was noticeably heavier than a Marshall 4x12.

Do you remember the specs on that cab? 100 watt, 200 watt? Was it a 16 ohm cab??

 

[Mark Richardson]

You can get pretty close to his tone with any P90 guitars. The amp is more tricky. You need volume, loudness and tube break-up.

Yep, I can get in the Leeds ballpark with my SG Classic through a Traynor YBA-1. The key with the amp is you need something with good headroom that doesn't get mushy when you push it, and cleans up when you roll off the guitar volume. Modern MV amps with clipping diodes won't cut it.